Touhou 19 thoughts

[Deiffu]

As no one metioned this topic i think i should.

What you guys think about the newest touhou? 

I think it's a great game and the best phantasmogoria type game in the series.
Gameplay is much better than PoFV and character selection favours the less known characters and adds four new ones.
The barrier mechanic is making this game feel lighter than the older games and i like it. It makes the game so much more lightweighted and encourages to more agressive type of gameplay. 

As for characters it was a pleasant suprise to see Mamizou as a playable character.
The new ones all look amazing even with ZUN's goofy artstyle.

Son Biten is a clear winner when it comes to design and is a new competetor in the smuggest 2hu competition.

When it comes to music it's great. The new themes are all catchy and old ones are just as good if not better than before.

 

Overall great game.

[The_Trader]

Very nice I would say, it is quite interesting 

[Kurzov]

Worst game launch in Touhou history

[CountVonNumenor]

2 hours ago, Kurzov said:

Worst game launch in Touhou history

I have not really caught up with the game news and what is going on. Could you please explain what happened? Outside the fact the game came out and what the character roster looks like, I have absolutely no idea of anything else. I have not played the game either, and probably won't do it given that bullet hell is not really my cup of tea when it comes to video games. So I'm listening, why is this "the worst game launch in Touhou history"? 

[Canaranjo]

I definitely prefer 9 over 19 so far. Though this might change if the community takes their time to improve this entry (as is with most pvp touhous).

• ZUN's native netcode is pretty bad for anyone trying to connect distances larger than japan mainland - japan mainland. Though I can't say I'm surprised. Parsec is a nice bandaid solution for the time being.
• The story mode is not a true 1v1 either, with it being a series of boss battles with an invulnerable oponent. What's even the point of the splitscreen? I haven't had the time to check the other modes just yet.
• The cast of characters is really interesting and new additions have their own appeal as well. Especially like seeing Yuuma and Ran here. Hisami's design is really unique, she's probably my favorite one of the newcomers.
• I do think ZUN continues to do Flandre dirty. Every other EoSD character has had their fair share of appearances (aside from rumia, poor thing), but one of the most popular characters in the series barely shows up beyond her original game. If we can't get a remake of th6, can we atleast have her shine again in another game?

These are my initial thoughts anyway. I'd be happy to see OP (or someone else) elaborate on the points in favor of the game.

Spoiler

Artist: https://twitter.com/autumnorange__/status/1690964982425612288

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Canaranjo

[yankop]

For me it was very meh. The only improvements from PoFV is the fact that you don't have to spam the Z button and character select menu is prettier. I generally think that ZUN is unfortunately beyond his prime. The game feels very "stiff", for the lack of a better word. Stuff like the netplay as Canaranjo said, the lack of replays and score for seemingly no apparent reason, the lack of a true 1v1 since you just have to beat the boss battles etc. For now I've only beaten the game 2 times with Reimu and Marisa (also tried Ran but she has a horrible shot type) and for the love of god, what an abysmal last stage boss theme. I was never disappointed with a last stage boss theme and here we are with this atrocity (sorry of you like it). Also, other small things like the lack of a restart from start button (which existed on most of not all of Touhou games for Windows so it's not like ZUN had to implement a new feature) and dialogue skipping by pressing left control. I feel like the game has become a smartphone, removing features left and right. Finally, why are the collectibles so small and transparent?

[Eulogous]

I'm very mixed on TH19, leaning more towards negative on it. I like some of the new ideas in the gameplay, but the game design is not that great.

Some things I like:

• The extendable graze barrier mechanic from 18.5 is back. I like how it's used to slow down bullets and freeze spirits.
• The charge attack being mapped to a different key is an improvement, as now I don't have to mash to fire normally. A system like that worked better in PoDD, but was kind of ass to deal with in PoFV. It's probably just a "me" thing idk.
• There's a good selection of playable characters, and we have some interesting interactions.
• I personally like that there are no 1cc requirements to get a clear for a character to unlock the others.
• The new sprite art is very appealing to me (seriously, ZUN please bring that artist back for the next game).

Minor nitpicks:

• We have a lot of new remixes of older songs, but most of them don't play for their respective characters in Story Mode. We just get generic filler tracks until near the end, with like the exception of Mamizou, who gets unique music during her early stages.
• Bombs are kind of lame looking. They're all standardized in the shape of the graze box thing. Bombs drain your meter, which I have never liked since PoFV. I prefer PoDD's approach in that Bombs were divorced from your meter entirely.
• There's like a "buffer" hit before actually losing a Heart. I don't have too much of an issue with this, but you can refresh it by using your own Boss Attack. I started to exploit it whenever I could in Story Mode lol. It's just too abusable with certain characters I guess.
• Enemy formations are the same from the first stage you play, to the last. Also it was neat in PoFV when the random Lily White mini-boss would appear, shook things up a little as well as giving a reward on defeat, and that game changed the aesthetics on some of the fairies for certain bosses.
• There doesn't seem to be any Extra mode content like in PoFV. I liked the "Sudden Death" challenge mode with Komachi, and it's sad there's no equivalent here.
• The difference in sprite quality can be weird. I'll be playing as Aunn or Ran, who have nice player sprites with good detail, fighting against Sanae who's using her player sprite from Touhou 12... It's just so bizarre seeing them next to each other.
• No Score or Replays. I don't care much for Score in this sub-genre, but no Replays is insane. I guess since the AI cheats, the Replay puppeteering would desync in a Story Mode run or something. I can only imagine trying to get a good Replay in an online match.
• The Ability Card system feels tacked on here. The customization options they bring are so negligible, they might as well not exist.
• No Dialogue Skipping.

My bigger issues with the game:

• The CPU being immortal in Story Mode until a set amount of Boss Attacks are survived/cleared made fights boring as all hell. There's no point in it being a splitsceen vs. shmup when your attacks don't even function in the way they were meant to. That design approach being on every boss makes it all feel same-y.
• Having the large cast of characters is a detriment in its own way, especially on how unlocking characters is handled. In PoFV, you at least had a starting roster beyond just Reimu. I understand the design philosophy for it, as forcing someone to get to grips with one character and seeing how everyone else is different onwards is smart and provides a sense of contrast. However, it starts to compound with the last point, because you have to do the same song and dance with every character that becomes available to unlock every playable one after.
• The absolute imbalance with the character roster make certain routes even more tedious than others. A lot of characters just feel weak, and enemies take too long to kill. This leads to situations where actually killing the Boss Attack pattern becomes nearly impossible, as a character with no damage can't kill the endless wave of random fairies body-blocking the boss and you end up timing the pattern out.
• The state of Online is dire.
• $14.99 on Steam for this? If it were priced at $10.99 like Violet Detector or Impossible Spell Card, it'd be a better buy imo.

I try to judge the Touhou games as games first, even if I like the characters, music, and what they bring to the lore. TH19 is not a very good game. Singleplayer content is too same-y and gets repetitive fast, while Multiplayer doesn't work that well and you need to have a friend who's into a niche sub-genre of STGs, who has a good connection or workaround for it.

4 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

So I'm listening, why is this "the worst game launch in Touhou history"? 

My guess is the absolute state of online play, and that all the imbalances from the demo weren't addressed at all.

 

11 hours ago, Deiffu said:

Son Biten is a clear winner when it comes to design and is a new competetor in the smuggest 2hu competition.

Agreed. Enoko is my second favorite design, only because the bear traps look too strange, especially them being red.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Eulogous

[Gri]

Quick question: do you mean the US price is still 15$ like the other games?

From where I am from, it is 19.49$ instead of the usual 17.49$. I am guessing it's because they didn't put regional pricing. It's only +2$ for me, but it might be more for other if that's the case.

I have been avoiding reading too much about touhou 19, but from what little I have saw, I really don't like the new artstyle (that Suika portrait looks awful). I know Zun's focus isn't drawing, but when you compare with MoF-SA-UFO, something definitely went wrong. It's as if Zun was using templates to draw character rather than drawing from scratch, so they all end up looking the same (it started a bit with 14, and it's gotten worse and worse). I mean, yeah, the player portrait from SA also looks too similar, but that was an exception.

Oh yeah, no replay. Wasn't there a PoFV tournament that used replay to show each match?

[Canaranjo]

23 minutes ago, Gri said:

Quick question: do you mean the US price is still 15$ like the other games?

From where I am from, it is 19.49$ instead of the usual 17.49$. I am guessing it's because they didn't put regional pricing. It's only +2$ for me, but it might be more for other if that's the case.

Touhou games never had regional princing, but this one is being sold for a higher price than usual.

 

23 minutes ago, Gri said:

I have been avoiding reading too much about touhou 19, but from what little I have saw, I really don't like the new artstyle (that Suika portrait looks awful). I know Zun's focus isn't drawing, but when you compare with MoF-SA-UFO, something definitely went wrong. It's as if Zun was using templates to draw character rather than drawing from scratch, so they all end up looking the same (it started a bit with 14, and it's gotten worse and worse). I mean, yeah, the player portrait from SA also looks too similar, but that was an exception.
 

And yeah. I didn't touch on that subject, but the art feels especially lazy on this one. Spritework aside, Suika's portrait is probably the worse offender, and so are the ending CGs, which were never ZUN's forte, but have definitely taken a dip even when comparing to the other digital era artworks.


I have no idea why such a basic feature like replays is missing. I hope that gets patched.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Canaranjo

[Pepi]

1 hour ago, Canaranjo said:

And yeah. I didn't touch on that subject, but the art feels especially lazy on this one. Spritework aside, Suika's portrait is probably the worse offender, and so are the ending CGs, which were never ZUN's forte, but have definitely taken a dip even when comparing to the other digital era artworks.

The ending CGs were good in the past, back in 1998 (25 years ago)... In Mystic Square, the ending has different fully colored drawings with a good art style despite the limitations of the PC98 hardware. Look at this:

Now that the veins of hype are dry on my end, here's my opinion/review of Touhou 19.
TLDR: The "Unfinished" in the title describes the game perfectly.

 

Good Things:

1) The game has good mechanics.
Charging attacks is intuitive and easy to pull off, getting the meter bar full is a simple collect the orbs, the spared hit is a good mechanic to make the game less punishing, although it's exploitable if you are good enough. Once a competitive metagame develops, we will know for sure how well done the combat system is.
2) Artistic department is beautiful.
I really like the new designs and ZUN is improving his music, he used a lot of new instruments to him, the mixing is great, and the melodies still feel fresh even if he still composes with the same kind of tricks.
3) The story and writing is great.
We still don't know the full details, but from what I've read, it depicts Gensokyo in the brink of a war, and it has a lot of interesting dialogue. For example, Son Biten being gaslighted into believing she's Son Goku's reincarnation, Hisami's possibly masochist tendencies and Chiyari being a hikikomori. She also managed to get me uncomfortable due to how creepy I find her.

And that's all. Yeah i didn't like this game.
I don't like a ZUN game since Touhou 11, it's incredible how massive his screw-up was in this one. I may dislike Touhou 11, but the game is finished and decently polished, not the case here.

 

Bad Things:

1) The CPU is unbeatable.
Especially when you take into account the "Human vs CPU" mode. As the CPU in this game is practically invincible, it's not like in PoFV where the CPU gets hits in normal. In about 2 hours of gameplay, the best I did was getting the CPU to drop 2 death bombs, meanwhile I was playing Orin VS Zanmu.

2) Lack of features.
There's no replay and score system and ZUN can't justify it because he loves to reutilize assets, how hard is it to adapt the 18 game catalog's code to this game or hire someone?

3) Online is unplayable.
I couldn't even join a match. The character selection screen dropped frames like crazy, and it had like 30 seconds of input lag. I won't be so critical here because I suppose that writing online multiplayer is very challenging. But why did ZUN not hire someone to make a reliable system?

4) Inconsistent art styles.
It was a good idea to introduce new character sprites and boss sprites, but the job was badly done as returning characters like Sanae have their sprites from Touhou 12 meanwhile others are showing off new sprites. But not everyone got a fair deal, Ran's player/back sprite is vomit inducing.
If ZUN at least allowed to remake all the player sprites, it would have consistent aesthetics.
And he didn't fix the character selection screen to always be a hexagon, instead you get the ugly circle until you select someone.

5) Poor game balance.
Half the cast encourages masochism, for example, I only managed to do decent damage with Orin thanks to the cards you get in story mode. Meanwhile, Reimu literally has infinite bombs with a good bullet slowdown aura. What the hell?

6) Atrocious pricing.
I can't believe the game costs $15 with all the fundamental problems tainting the experience. For example, Terraria gives you tenfold the content for just $10 and Mystia Izakaya, a complete game without mayor problems (I didn't try it), is only $6.
I can't even feel bad for pirating Touhou 19, it's simply not worth the $15. Before at least you got a finished experience with good polish and hours of entertainment.

7) ZUN's pride
I believe we are entering a dark period of Touhou if ZUN doesn't drop the pride. Touhou is a FRICKING SOCIAL PHENOMENON in Japan, I'm sure he can hire more people to improve mainline Touhou even more. And not a gigantic amount of people that could bankrupt ZUN, he only needs a few beta testers, someone capable of providing a good online experience and a team of translators.

8) Development problems.
If you pay close attention to how the story mode works, you will notice that once you reach a certain amount of time in a fight you automatically win, why is that? ZUN realized the CPU was unfair, but instead of fixing it, he made a quick lazy patch to allow players completing the story mode.
Why did ZUN make that choice instead of fixing the problem? I don't know what happened, but Touhou 19 seemed to be stuck in development hell, as it's unusual that he didn't try to fix it by just reutilizing PoFV's CPU (I know he has the code, he kept the sprites after all).

9) Poor roster
I know the roster makes sense for the story, but it's very strange that ZUN didn't include more characters. Combined with past games and the card mechanics of 18, he can easily introduce at least like 15 characters. And if it ruins the story, make them extra unlockable characters that aren't involved in the story. It would fit the style of progressively unlocking characters, like how it's done in Smash Bros.
It also has some nonsensical character choices like Seiran or Orin, they don't add anything to the story. Something else that's weird is not having Kasen, Clownpiece, Keiki, Chen or Hecatia involved in the story as they are directly affected by the plot of the game. (yes, Chen technically appears in Ran's attacks, but why don't make her more independent?)

 

Conclusion:

I'm honestly impressed that, at the time of writing, ZUN is getting away unscathed after such a bad game. Steam's reviews are very positive and I can't comprehend how.
Most of the critics I gave are due to a surprising lack of testing, polish and passion in developing this game, not me disliking core parts of the game entirely based on taste (like how I can dislike puzzle games because they don't entertain me).
I want to like this game, as the things it does right are amazing, but it has fundamental issues that are only justified if the game was in early alpha.

I really hope ZUN patches most of the game's issues (something unlikely to happen) and if that's not the case, at least that Touhou 20 or 19.X is a polished experience with good gameplay and new people on board.
Maybe it's time for ZUN to either expand Team Shanghai Alice or hand over Touhou to new developers, it's unacceptable to have this experience in 2023 and a complete lack of improvements in a lot of areas.

I just can't get over the fact that games made 25+ years ago on the very limited PC98 platform have comparable quality. Not even counting early Windows era games, my god. ZUN please do something.

 

 

[Sir I]

49 minutes ago, Pepi said:

7) ZUN's pride
I believe we are entering a dark period of Touhou if ZUN doesn't drop the pride. Touhou is a FRICKING SOCIAL PHENOMENON in Japan, I'm sure he can hire more people to improve mainline Touhou even more. And not a gigantic amount of people that could bankrupt ZUN, he only needs a few beta testers, someone capable of providing a good online experience and a team of translators.

Never in my life that a post can actually make me feel intimidated. And at this point, I agree that he should have people helping him to make games and not himself, so as to not cause trouble for himself and the fans.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not going to lie, reading the posts in the thread made me just disappointed on Touhou 19. Heck! It has Ran Yakumo and Suika Ibuki, finally we can play them on a mainline. But no, it turned into an unfinished game! I hope Jun'ya fix the game, really.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Maniac Privateer

[yankop]

6 hours ago, Gri said:

I have been avoiding reading too much about touhou 19, but from what little I have saw, I really don't like the new artstyle (that Suika portrait looks awful). I know Zun's focus isn't drawing, but when you compare with MoF-SA-UFO, something definitely went wrong. It's as if Zun was using templates to draw character rather than drawing from scratch, so they all end up looking the same (it started a bit with 14, and it's gotten worse and worse). I mean, yeah, the player portrait from SA also looks too similar, but that was an exception.

I thought I was the only one feeling like that. The new art feels very "plastic-y" compared to IN-PoFV-MoF.

3 hours ago, Pepi said:

Steam's reviews are very positive and I can't comprehend how.

The only reason I can think of is kinda dumb. I think that newer players who don't know what Touhou was like some years ago (and I say this as someone who started playing EoSD January last year). Also half of the reviews can be summarized by these screenshots:

Spoiler

[Gri]

3 hours ago, yankop said:

The only reason I can think of is kinda dumb. I think that newer players who don't know what Touhou was like some years ago (and I say this as someone who started playing EoSD January last year). Also half of the reviews can be summarized by these screenshots:

Yeah, reviews for Touhou games are not reliable. I never wrote reviews before, but I had to for Kubinashi Recollection, since many reviews were just "Yeah! Sexybanki" or reviews lying about S-rank being impossible (but to be fair, the very first stage is near-impossible and way too hard compare to the rest of the game)

It was the same deal for Luna Night, all of them going "Sakuya's thighs".

So, pro tip: read a few good and bad review to get an actual impression of the game.

[Eulogous]

10 hours ago, Gri said:

I have been avoiding reading too much about touhou 19, but from what little I have saw, I really don't like the new artstyle (that Suika portrait looks awful). I know Zun's focus isn't drawing, but when you compare with MoF-SA-UFO, something definitely went wrong. It's as if Zun was using templates to draw character rather than drawing from scratch, so they all end up looking the same (it started a bit with 14, and it's gotten worse and worse). I mean, yeah, the player portrait from SA also looks too similar, but that was an exception.

Suika's portrait art doesn't read as her, she's way too blonde. I avoided adding my art complaints onto the list, since I was afraid criticizing ZUN art might get me burned at the stake for how iconic it generally is (also the list started getting long-winded). Sanae looks off, Saki and Orin's posing both look awkward, and Tsukasa's art seems worse (it's the ears) and it hasn't even been that long since she was introduced.

7 hours ago, Pepi said:

The ending CGs were good in the past, back in 1998 (25 years ago)... In Mystic Square, the ending has different fully colored drawings with a good art style despite the limitations of the PC98 hardware. Look at this:

Man, the PC-98 ending CGs are leaps and bounds better than Window's CGs. I don't understand why the line art in Window's CGs is purposely made worse, and nowadays instead of color, it's just layered over some random wallpaper-looking background.

Spoiler

I swear the mountain image was legit reused in a CG in TH19.

 

7 hours ago, Pepi said:

It also has some nonsensical character choices like Seiran or Orin, they don't add anything to the story. Something else that's weird is not having Kasen, Clownpiece, Keiki, Chen or Hecatia involved in the story as they are directly affected by the plot of the game.

The lack of Keiki really bothers me. She answered the call of the Human Spirits in the Animal Realm, gave them physical Haniwa bodies that prevented the Animal Spirits from harming them, and generally had those Human's interests in mind. So, if the Animal Spirits and their leaders are becoming a threat to Gensokyo, wouldn't it make sense for her to want to protect the Humans on the surface, from foes she's already fought? Heck, she could even send Mayumi on her behalf, since at least she'd be immune to any attacks by Spirits and can't be fatigued.

I think a chunk of the character roster only exists as it does to shoehorn specific animal reps for an overarching theme. Though, why 2 foxes?

 

7 hours ago, Pepi said:

Steam's reviews are very positive and I can't comprehend how.

I've asked myself the same question for a while. I feel like there are people nowadays that just accept mediocrity from series they are attached to, even if it's glory days have long since passed (I have a few friends who still buy Pokemon games on launch despite the quality dropping off a cliff and them knowing it). It doesn't help that I think the fandom over here can be toxically positive about anything Touhou-related, to the point where we just don't talk about quality... or they just politely shun you by ignoring your existence.

My alternate take would be that they got a free game with their $15 CD.

 

3 hours ago, yankop said:

The only reason I can think of is kinda dumb. I think that newer players who don't know what Touhou was like some years ago (and I say this as someone who started playing EoSD January last year). Also half of the reviews can be summarized by these screenshots:

I'd say that's likely. I hate the "nothing" reviews on Steam, and it's the same for fangames too. I read negative reviews, because often times that person is passionate about the things they like, want it to improve, and can elaborate.

Someone I know bought Genso Wanderer because of the wave of positive reviews, claiming it was like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. It wasn't, they were turned off by the overbearing enemies resetting any progress by destroying their items, and felt that they were lied to. They hated the experience.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Eulogous
Some dang images not loading...

[The_Trader]

1.AI is freaking broken(whats the use of charge attacks when the AI's gonna dodge them all anyways?)

2.Some characters are so trash they are not even worth choosing a second time(Nazrin, Rin)

3. Un-dodgable Mess of bullet against final bosses in hard and above 

4. Some bosses have extra attacks which are too powerful(Rin, Chiyari, Saaki)

5. Zanmu, Saaki, and Chiyari(Purple haired one) are so op that they are gonna be the only one's people would want to use to win online matches

6. Overall, its a bit boring(I honestly find the earlier games more fun and enjoyableobale)

7. Music is just meh ( Didnt notice anything new except the last theme which was okish)

Basically the gameplay is quite broken atm

7 hours ago, Pepi said:

I don't like a ZUN game since Touhou 11

Agreed, its always the starting ones which are the best(even for movies), after that ideas run out

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Saathi
Structure

[Gri]

57 minutes ago, Eulogous said:

Man, the PC-98 ending CGs are leaps and bounds better than Window's CGs. I don't understand why the line art in Window's CGs is purposely made worse, and nowadays instead of color, it's just layered over some random wallpaper-looking background.

Wasn't Zun working with a team back then on PC-98?

Still, even if we ignore PC-98, early windows game had colored ending (PCB 7 and PoFV 9 comes to mind, even EoSD 6) that looks better than the minimalist ending we have since DDC 14. Even though colors were gone with MoF 10, there were still details in the background. Not all CG looked great, but at least you could tell that Zun tried. Nowadays, it's just one or two character draw with minimal details.

[Canaranjo]

I think touhou has reached a status where the fanbase will eat up and praise anything tha comes out of ZUN. At this point it's more of a cult following than anything. "A touhou fan is part of your identity so you automatically love any kind of attention or content the fanbase may get. " I get that mentality sometimes. I'm still on the lookout for anything related to touhou on steam, for example.

Props on that review, pepi. I think not only did you translate a lot of the games cons (and pros) well but you also brought some different points I hadn't even considered. Can't say I disagree with anything you put out there.

Quote

Wasn't Zun working with a team back then on PC-98?

Still, even if we ignore PC-98, early windows game had colored ending (PCB 7 and PoFV 9 comes to mind, even EoSD 6) that looks better than the minimalist ending we have since DDC 14. Even though colors were gone with MoF 10, there were still details in the background. Not all CG looked great, but at least you could tell that Zun tried. Nowadays, it's just one or two character draw with minimal details.

The early endings in the series were hand drawn and digitalized. That's where the charm of the black and white art came from. Now it lost that aspect completely, and it's just some half done piece of incomplete digital assets.

One positive point that I didn't see mentioned: 
I am not sure how much of it is recycled, but the spritework for some of this games' sprites is absolutely gorgeous. Especially the boss enemy ones.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Canaranjo

[Canaranjo]

Oh, and one question: Has anyone figured out the rules as to how the temporary hit invulnerability works? It's not tied to boss charge, I can assure you that. Seems like understanding that mechanic is crucial to being able to clear the game in harder difficulties.

[nitorii]

haven't played the game yet but looking at all the reviews here I'm guessing it's gonna stay that way

[Pepi]

2 hours ago, Canaranjo said:

One positive point that I didn't see mentioned: 
I am not sure how much of it is recycled, but the spritework for some of this games' sprites is absolutely gorgeous. Especially the boss enemy ones.

It is.
ZUN hired someone from I believe Twilight Frontier to make new boss sprites and his wife to make new back/player sprites.

1 hour ago, Canaranjo said:

Oh, and one question: Has anyone figured out the rules as to how the temporary hit invulnerability works? It's not tied to boss charge, I can assure you that. Seems like understanding that mechanic is crucial to being able to clear the game in harder difficulties.

I'd say it's around 5-10 seconds, idk for certain. Once the competitive scene takes off, we will have tier lists and detailed documents for all the game's mechanics.

2 hours ago, Gri said:

Wasn't Zun working with a team back then on PC-98?
 

He was, but I'm certain he was the person in charge of the game's character drawings and endings. I don't know how involved the rest of Amusement Makers was with the development of Mystic Square, but I remember the credits having the typical Everything = Made by ZUN
 

[Reitisen]

Having played through the game and the rest of the Touhou series, I completely agree with a lot of the stuff said here.

It honestly feels like an imitation of POFV, but like a DLC with only added characters, minor mechanical additions, and some removals. There was nothing major in the SHMUP PVP from TH9.

I honestly wished that TH19 added something new that TH9 didn't have, but the only things added were the things listed above by other users.

Aside from net play mode being borked, I really wish that ZUN added something like actual spell cards that you initiate to attack opponents instead of using the boss system from TH9. Something like SWR/Hisouten in which you customize your decks and launch different attacks towards your opponent aside from relying on your attacker to flood the screen and hope your opponent gets cornered. Something more complex than onslaught mechanics.

Single-player gameplay is not so fun after fighting the same drivel of bullets and getting the powerup cards, which don't really change anything aside from giving you minor boosts/changes and or damage. It feels like the bullet battles are more geared towards playing against a human opponent than an AI, as the bosses themselves don't play by the same rules as you do and punish you for launching attacks.

I would rate TH19 to be the same, if not worse, than the fighting games. It relies on people to keep it going, as once you have beaten the AI, you really don't have anything else to beat aside from other humans who play on the same ruleset and can create dynamic fights. Without multiplayer, it's really just a one-off game that can't stand on its own legs, aside from the mainline SHMUP and some of the fighting games, which challenge you in actual difficulty/score rather than impossible fights that the AI can just zip through and crap on your screen. 

[BlueMoon]

Alright, I think this is for me, the worst entry into mainline Touhou games for now. Mainly because I had hopes of it being rather fine, which I guess is the last thing you want to have these days if you are interested in Touhou.

I would point out the reasons why I hate it, but Pepi has posted such a great summary (except the part where he said that Th11 is bad >:(  ) that I don't think I need to, but I'll still throw in my two cents about a rather peculiar thingy.

The main reason why I was interested in it, was because of the multiplayer, now I knew what to expect from ZUN when it comes to netcode, but this is a mess that no man could ever prepare for. Multiplayer (from what I understand, at least) runs on Dedicated Servers! And that's absolutely horrible for something like indie games! The servers are in Japan, when connecting to Online VS, it sends requests to some servers ran by I think a Taiwanese web game developer, I guess ZUN contacted them to run servers for it. We might as well render official netplay as nonexistent for now. Probably forever too, unless someone makes a utility for servers to make the game actually playable for us gaijins. It also uses ports from 40000 to 59999. If anyone else has a theory/figured out how multiplayer for this game works, please post it, I am genuinely curious.

At least we got Kaguya cosplaying as an Eggplant.

 

 

[Pepi]

2 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

I would point out the reasons why I hate it, but Pepi has posted such a great summary (except the part where he said that Th11 is bad >:(  ) that I don't think I need to, but I'll still throw in my two cents about a rather peculiar thingy.

 

 

 

That's why I said that I dislike TH11 not due to it being badly done, but for personal preference xD

Eggplant supremacy is real.

[Renault FT-17]

18 hours ago, Gri said:

From where I am from, it is 19.49$ instead of the usual 17.49$. I am guessing it's because they didn't put regional pricing. It's only +2$ for me, but it might be more for other if that's the case.

In my country, it's like 60% more expensive than the older games :/ (UM at R$28,99 vs UDoALG at R$ 46,99)

I was thinking of buying it mostly because of how much I love the series, but the price and the fact that the netcode barely works made me change my mind. Guess I'll just sit and hope Imperishable Night ever comes out (and for the older price).

[Gri]

1 hour ago, Renault FT-17 said:

In my country, it's like 60% more expensive than the older games :/ (UM at R$28,99 vs UDoALG at R$ 46,99)

*Sigh* exactly was I was afraid of. What do Japanese devs have against regional pricing? Do they really think everyone want to mess with the system and buy the game on lower currency? 

Yet another reason why piracy will never go away (that and not having the most popular games available).