Let's talk about the flanderization of Touhou characters

[Gou the frog]

16 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Yeah, I really thin it is especially a Japanese thing. From my experience online, what is with Japanese liking to film women of the street and getting the cameras under their skirts to film/photo the "pantsu"? To me, this is something very weird, and seems like an inspiration to the "pervert Aya" image created in the fandom. 

Very fair point. There's not much west fanon-created characters.

I have two more in stock that'll likely be west related, maybe not.

 Yukari/Eirin/Kanako/etc... Old women jokes, 

I think this one is yin & yang? Like the whole "yukari is 17", Eirin is older the the earth itself (uncountable numbers of billions) etc.

Overly-Childish Remilia

Her mental image is depicted as a 5 year old. That doesn't truly make any sense.

 

 

[Darksymphony777]

Hold on, hold on. I feel like we are forgetting a very important character in this whole west influence, someone who embodies the west in some way hmmmm now if only I knew if such a character exists in touhou

 

 

[BigBoople]

Perverse behavior is often played up for a joke, fellas. The Japanese aren't as squeamish as the west about sexually charged jokes, especially things like perversion.

[CountVonNumenor]

2 hours ago, BigBoople said:

Perverse behavior is often played up for a joke, fellas. The Japanese aren't as squeamish as the west about sexually charged jokes, especially things like perversion.

Yes, that is why I said it sometimes feels like Japan is quite like a different world from ours in the West. And I don't even live in the West, but exactly in the middle between the "Western" and "Japanese" world, aka in Eastern Europe. But yeah, to be fair, we tend to be quite prude here, and the Eastern Orthodox religion does not help either. 

[TheM3ds]

20 hours ago, BigBoople said:

I mean, this never really affects their characterization in any official works, and the fandom in question has, for the longest time, primarily been the Japanese fandom. It wasn't the west that turned Yuuka into a sadist in fanon or turned Shiki into a girl insecure about her chest size, etc. etc. All these things happened in the Japanese fanon and we just kind of rolled with it as it radiated out over here into the west. You kinda have to remember that for the better part of 20 years this series has been pretty niche outside of japan, and still kind of is. The Japanese fandom has done most of the "Heavy lifting" for fandom content creation.

I don't recall saying that this has affected the characters in official Touhou media, though with that said I won't deny that the Japanese fandom has been carrying the whole content scene for years now, even with a series as niche as Touhou. Still, I have my doubts.

4 hours ago, BigBoople said:

Perverse behavior is often played up for a joke, fellas. The Japanese aren't as squeamish as the west about sexually charged jokes, especially things like perversion.

While it is true that Japanese culture is more tolerant of perverse humor, this largely has to do with the VAST cultural differences between the west and Japan since comparing the two wouldn't make much sense, I'm aware that we're talking about Aya here but still there is a large cultural gap here that should be obvious. Japan functions differently then most Asian countries but still that's a can of worms I don't want to open since there would be ALOT to unpack, while having a deep discussion about it. But if there's something I'm missing here then please let me know.

1 hour ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Yes, that is why I said it sometimes feels like Japan is quite like a different world from ours in the West. And I don't even live in the West, but exactly in the middle between the "Western" and "Japanese" world, aka in Eastern Europe. But yeah, to be fair, we tend to be quite prude here, and the Eastern Orthodox religion does not help either. 

Europe my have some cultural differences compared to America but they still have the same structure if I'm not mistaken? Like I'm aware they have different governments and law's but still.

[BigBoople]

3 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Yes, that is why I said it sometimes feels like Japan is quite like a different world from ours in the West. And I don't even live in the West, but exactly in the middle between the "Western" and "Japanese" world, aka in Eastern Europe. But yeah, to be fair, we tend to be quite prude here, and the Eastern Orthodox religion does not help either. 

Even comparing eastern europe to Japan isn't really going to be the same. The most you could say that you're lacking is that the Westernization of Japan is heavily American, so i guess you're even FURTHER from Japan than I am in terms of culture.

[CountVonNumenor]

27 minutes ago, BigBoople said:

The most you could say that you're lacking is that the Westernization of Japan is heavily American, so i guess you're even FURTHER from Japan than I am in terms of culture.

Definitely can't deny that. Easter Europe is very different even from the nearby Western half of the continent, let alone a nation like Japan, situated exactly in the other side of the world. 

Anyway, guess we could get back at discussing further examples of character flanderization in the fandom. 
I will just briefly go again through some of my favorites.

 

• Youmu: usually gets to be the target of abuses from anyone around her. Also, victim of getting eaten whenever Yuyuko may be a little too hungry, either by eating just the phantom half or just eating everything. In a way though, it can also be cute when she acts as naïve, while there can also be some extremely badass looking fanart of her, which I always appreciate.

 

• Eiki Shiki: a real classic when it comes to fanon butchering personalities. She has been turned into a tiny, angry loli judge Judy who sends everyone to Hell for arbitrary reasons like having bigger boobs than hers. To be honest, seeing a tall or mature version of Eiki in any bit of fan art has become a very rare sight at least in my case, and when seeing one such example, it becomes a little too odd after seeing her so much in the little girl form, despite me preferring the more mature version. And another weird thing: most of the mature Eiki images I have seen, at least on image boards like Danbooru, use her mature version mostly for smut (not that they are not doing the same thing with her small child version too - after all, this is the Touhou fandom we are talking about)

 

• Raiko: I honestly do not know anything bad about her fanon version, if there is anything; feel free to add anything or correct me if I missed something. I have not seen too much about her in mater of doujins, but fanart of her can really be badass, just like for any of the other girls from these games - a cool redhead dressed sharply is always a win.

 

• Mayumi: similar story to Raiko; maybe perverted art would have anything to say. Oh, and the other thing I would usually associate Mayumi with from the fan content would be the song HANIPAGANDA. Truth be told, I really love that song, even with the controversies sparked during the original release of the music video.

 

• Akyuu: again, nothing really bad, however I did hear that her yukkuri form is kind of a jerk. Like seriously though, I really do not know if there is too much fan-made content related to her outside art. I just know that apparently she is nicknamed " Akkyun" by some some fans. In short, Akyuu does not have a fanon personality. 

 

• Yuuka: your ”ultimate sadistic creature” by definition; by this point, I am not even sure anymore what is canon and what is fanon about her personality. I have the feeling most of her fanon image revolves around this trait, while there might also be that extremely rare case when she is not just a sadistic person.

 

• Junko: many times represented as having a stalker/highly obsessed kind of relation to Reisen. However, I really got a weird interest for her since I really like her music theme, and the design is interesting too - I like that royal court looking clothes.

 

• Maribel (and would also include Renko here): not too sure what to say about them; again, feel free to correct me if I missed something. Despite considering myself a rather acceptant person, who is fine with the LGBTQ community and I am not against any ship as long as it is well written and feels natural, but I feel like one, if not the most common thing I have seen about Maribel and Renko in fandom is the two getting shipped. And I feel like people know them better for that than their actual story or even the music CDs themselves. If you were to ask me, first thing I would tell you about the two would be about the music CDs (they are actually awesome), and then perhaps about any of the fan songs I have listened to (Black Mirror on the Wall is the example most fresh in my mind), and then perhaps get to the ship part, because again, this is Touhou, and the fandom likes shipping basically everyone with everyone.

 

• Iku: I do not think there is too much to say, since from what I have seen, se tends to fall into the ”who?” category. If there is something, I just see her either in the "disco queen" meme (tbh I am just as guilty for continuing it since first time I drew Iku was in the famous disco pose) or paired with Tenshi, be it romantically or just comradery.

 

Hecatia: is there anything worse out there besides the jokes about her weird sense of fashion? I still remember about a certain youtuber and his "What you favourite Touhou waifu says about you" video resuming Junko and Hecatia in the following way:

Quote

"Junko: you have a god complex. Hecatia: you want to f**k a god complex"

 

[Darksymphony777]

14 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Junko: many times represented as having a stalker/highly obsessed kind of relation to Reisen. However, I really got a weird interest for her since I really like her music theme, and the design is interesting too - I like that royal court looking clothes.

Hey I happen to be a fan of Junko wanting to feed reisen the carrot or be her mom, I think it's cute imo

 

And to be fair with hecatia, would you expect a goddess of hell to dress like she shops at hot topic. And it's better than what he said about mokou

 

16 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Mokou: do you like big flaming COCKS!! Well then mokou is the one for you

 

[CountVonNumenor]

6 minutes ago, Darksymphony777 said:

And it's better than what he said about Mokou

Oh, so you actually know the video I was talking about 


Also bonus round: thanks to probably my most active Reddit thread I ever came up with, I woke up with a lot of material I could expose here and somehow make it relevant too the overall thread. Feel free to interpret however you feel like
 

Quote

• Meiling: the fans completely ignore any canon material establishing her as a competent fighter that regularly receives challengers and a good gatekeeper and instead repeat the same joke about her being lazy, sleeping and getting knifed by Sakuya like a broken record repeating itself. The fans also tend to lean way too hard on admittedly kinda racist Chinese stereotypes with her like people portraying her as a communist or funni super idol social credit. She is also depicted as being a huge friend of Flandre and Sakuya’s lover too. She’s also subject to the oversized boobs thing as well

 

• Large-chested slut, often made fun of. I know you said not to comment about ridiculously oversized boobs, buts it's kinda Sanae's thing when it comes to fanon it seems.

 

• Honestly the "murder psycho" fanonization destroys a lot of the characters. Characters like Yukari and Remilia become unsympathizable when the fandom depicts them randomly kidnapping and murdering people. If that was really true, why would Reimu and Marisa entertain them whatsoever? Someone is always like "oh, but it's canon." I haven't read the manga and I know there's something about Yukari feeding outside humans to youkai, but is this literally shown? My point is that ZUN keeps "eatings" non-explicit on purpose, so that both the virtuous and evil interpretations of the characters are valid. But its far worse effect is on characters like Flandre, Rumia, and Koishi. In 99% of content about Rumia she doesn't even have a character, just the "girl who eats people." I actually liked her character from Touhou 6, she's a silly, amusing child who claims to eat people. I always thought the whole joke is that her pokedex entry is "youkai of darkness, eater of humans, etc." while her real personality is a harmless, sunny idiot. I don't really mind the "evil Gensokyo" interpretation, because any interpretation is fine. But it's a little tiring when such a huge fraction of fanon is either fluffy wholesome paradise or grimdark. Characters like Rumia get stranded between these two extremes and never get to actually have a personality.

 

 

• Remilia gets more characterised at "incompetent gap Moe bait" than a murderous psychopath.
• Shizuha and Minoriko: the most I know about their fanon is, ironically, how much they're not represented in fanon.
• Hina: SPEEEEEEEEENNN. Yeah, not much more than that. Goth Loli is canon, so I can't dunk on that.
• Nitori: I don't see her much in fanon, actually. If I do, it's usually seems pretty faithful to my headcanon (shy, geeky, that sorta thing). I am totally on board with the idea that she makes products under her name, like Aya's camera. Speaking of...
• Aya: ah, here we go, Zun's girlfriend. I've seen that she can be a bit of perv with her reporting, which is sorta funny as a passing thought. Aside from that, though, nothing jumps out at me.

• Sanae: to be honest, the massive boobs are quite annoying. Especially since her character is a pretty interesting concept. We don't have many humans in Gensokyo, much less from the outside (with the knowledge thereof), and much less ones powerfully enough to be a 5th stage boss. I can see her being ditzy, but fanon seriously runs wild with that. And her boobs.
• Kanako: Aside from her being a granny the likes of Yukari, I see less representation than I'd otherwise think. Everything I can think about her are either one-off jokes or actuall Canon. Not that her Canon isn't interesting.
• Suwako: you've heard of goth loli, now get ready for frog loli. I guess that seems like the natural way fanon would take it, though some ignore the fact that she is a god even Kanako tries to keep you from. Fanon generally goes for this innocent young child image, when there should probably be at least a tinge of wisdom and power somewhere.

And the bonus round:

• Shinmyoumaru: apparently the subject of torture recently, including blenders (seriously..?). Calm down, guys. That aside, fanon can't seem to agree how big she is. Some have her mere millimeters in hight while others have her comparable to a child. Personally, three apples seems reasonable.
• Okuu: the idiot to rival Cirno, or so everyone thinks. Honestly, "idiot" wasn't the first impression I got when I faced her, but it was also easy mode, so what can I say? If she has to be dumb, she at least knows she's dumb in my book. She also has a similar boob thing like Sanae, which I've already stated my opinion on.

 

• Thank God Seija dont really have negative depictions of her even in those hentai doujins. In fact those lewd doujins are even nice enough to insert the canon game or lore references in her doujins.

 

• I hate how exaggerating the fanon did on Aya's lackadaisical manner though, when she is just as shrewd and manipulative as your usual tengu. The unofficial anime has a chance to redeem Aya's coolness during her fight with Reimu, since anyone who know Touhou should know Aya is really strong, but they threw that for a newly made plot that makes Aya looked incompetent as a tengu. Heck Aya vs any of the protagonists should have happen ever since PoFV. Its probably I dont feel anything when they announced that they're stopping at MoF.

 

• My favorite character is Sakuya, and well, there's both a lot and not that much to say about her fanon depictions. There's 2 main ways that she acts in fanon. One of them is being madly in love in Remilia and triggered by the word pads. The other is being an edgelord. Fanon Sakuya is as shallow as you can get for the most part, with her only canon trait that gets respected most of the time being the she is loyal to Remilia. Other than that, her personality is either "me love loli vampires" or the staple rogue that starts the DnD session by brooding at an edge of the tavern. Sometimes she does a jojo reference, and that's about it.

 

• The depictions of Byakuren tend to vary in fanon. On the good side she's sometimes: The wise mentor or the kindly mother figure, or sometimes a mix of the two, it feels incredibly fitting with what's already in canon. Sometimes albeit rarely fans realize her connection to the Buddhist Figure Maitreya and that makes it all the cooler.  On the bad side she's sometimes: The insane prude (beating up her followers for having even a millisecond of fun), the disgusting hedonist , a violent lunatic (KKHTA despite it's retconned explanation, Love and Peace are the worst examples), a complete moron (seemingly stemming from a fanon idea that she's completely misguided), a complete simp for Miko (the number of doujins where her attraction to Miko leads to her completely revoking Buddhism are too damn high).

 

• Then there's Kaguya who is more often than not either depicted as a psychotic yandere for Mokou, a greasy slob, or an annoying brat. Some doujins have her and Mokou basically comedically Tsundere and that can be funny but Kaguya rarely shows the canon insightful dialogue. Then there's Yuyuko who is basically depicted as gluttony incarnate in fanon, depicted as an all consuming busty ghost monster, leaving out her Yukari level intellect, her moral compunctions about killing, her funny but also clever metaphors and many more. PC-98 is probably the worst treated in fanon though, often literally just OC stand ins if they ever appear, I mean yes some were blank slates but some had a lot of characterization.

 

• (About Okuu) Not from what I have seen. Most depict her as so utterly moronic that she will forget the last thing you told her if she takes 3 steps, and I have seen more comparisons between her and Cirno, than I have see her portrayed as even slightly smart. I genuinely can't think of any doujin, and I have read through every single one uploaded to Dynasty Scans, where she is portrayed as intellegent, even in an Idiot Savant style.

• Fanon seems to mostly depict Seija as a huge contrarian bitch who causes big problems to everyone for no coherent reason. I love it. One of the few times my interpretation, fanon, and canon line up well.
• Shinmyoumaru mostly gets portrayed as adorable smol 2hu in fanart and fanfics. More serious ones try to make her innocent and deceived into being evil which I never liked. Canon Shinmy becomes overaggressive short man syndrome in the fighting games and then mustache twirling evil in GoU. I like it better when they're shown as villain duo.

Okuu in canon seemed really self-absorbed. I wish more works played that side up. I feel like fanworks also play her as too nice and good. In GoU, she was one of the people who was down to start shooting, no questions asked. Shinmy was like 'hey, wanna go murder?' 'Do I!?'

 

• Wriggle in canon seems weird and kinda evil. The things she had in a canon game were A) Being offended and attacking over looking down on her B) Kicking people in the face and C) Trying to walk up and 'take' Remilia in a very 'I want that, give it to me' way. That happened, I feel like no one acknowledges it. Everyone just puts Wriggle as extra kid character to put near Cirno, which is kinda lame. I don't even headcanon them as child-like.

 

• There's this weird divide between western and eastern portrayal when it comes to the Buddhists and Taoists. Eastern works are way more sided with the Taoists while Western works are way more on the Buddhist side. So in a lot of Eastern works, they'll just assume that Byakuren is in some way crazy, selfish, or misguided, while in Western works, she's just super good and nice. Still, most works portray Byakuren as just good. Also, I've noticed all my favorite characters are all evil and Byakuren. Well, I like moral simplicity sometimes, and there aren't many characters that are actually just good in Touhou.
• Yeah not only is Prince Shotoku really popular in Japan, Miko's smaller less curvy appearance has often lead to her being depicted more moe which has lead to Byakuren being depicted as a religious Yuuka (fanon Yuuka that is) more often than it should. Also Miko looks like a Vocaloid and the fandom overlap is pretty strong.

 

• Miyoi fans wishing their character was actively portrayed period.

 

• As for Toyohime... yeah , fuck that , I'm not even gonna try and get into this clusterfuck that is what she's labeled as , the fanon destroyed her and made her and Yorihime into some of the most hated characters in the series. And it all stems from the fact that the Lunarians are as a race mostly dicks. Shame , because the canon lore about them is actually kind of interesting , it even shows that they're nice unlike the rest of the Lunar Capital.

 

• Marisa: a sneaky witch with a huge tomboyish personality, she usually talks, moves, and acts like a boy, she's a sweetie for various people in Gensokyo, Alice is obsessed with her, Patchouli hates and loves her, Nitori is her best friend, Reimu hates and likes her, Flandre likes her, etc, she's also the ultimate thief and a Master spark spammer.
• Youmu: yes, an easily manipulative girl, probably one of the youngest looking humans in Gensokyo, she suffers Yuyuko's bullshit, she can't even eat her own food.
• Suika: Japanese goblin, Reimu's fangirl, a drunkass oni who's always happy, related to demoman, messy, didn't see too much of her.
• Alice: fuck you im not gonna explain this one.
• Meiling: most of the time the cause why the mansion goes through multiple problems, the goodest member of the mansion, sleepy, Flandre's favorite aunt, Sakuya's punchbag and love interest, super idol, bing chilling, chinese social credit, too much chinese = funny.
• Reisen: Niko Bellic bunny girl, victim of Tewi's trolling, Junko's victim, weed eater, Eirin's little experiment.
• Wriggle: a boy and shitpost (cool bug fact's? [Editor's note])

 

• Patchouli Knowledge being a overly cute small dork, who's easily shocked by things or a extremely overbreasted woman... There are other forms of it, but those are the ones I dislike the most. Not that I hate it, however... We are speaking about someone who has a medical condition that makes her frail... With heavy eye bags from reading in the dark, pale skin from not getting sun, and ominous aura locked away from the world in a giant library. What am I trying to say is... Someone with a frail body being nonchalant about having a knife on her back, while being threatened by the most intellectual creature in Gensokyo... is not a cute small dork. There's not much to say about the ships, I just don't get it how she absolutely loves Marisa. Can you really like someone who zaps into your place, take your things and leave? Overall, I just think she's fine alone with her allies from SDM... It's always been like that. So, yeah. It somehow became a rant...? Oh well. There's no fanon about Rikako, sadly... And fanon Meira(in my head) is just Schezo from Puyo Puyo, lol.

 

• Doremy: Honestly I havent seen really anything "bad" about her, being shipped with Sagume may not make sense, but other than that smug sheep is fine. Koishi and Flandre: I put these two together because they have the same issue, their "violent" behaviors get overblown by the fandom, I dont think I have to elaborate further, if you know these two you know they are usually portrayed as the "Funni psycho little sisters". Yuuma: Well she is kinda new but she already made it to my favorites lmao, but not much to say on her fandom portrayal so far other than the probable Spoonful and Kirby jokes, which are fine. Yukari: Other than the old af "Hag jokes" I really dont see her being misstreated, in fanworks she can be as mysterious as she is in canon, I feel the fandom may portray the Yakumo family closer than they really are or rather in a more wholesome light, but Im fine with that, so yeah nothing else to say there.

 

• Shou, a prodigy for being the Avatar of Bishamonten, a symbol that Youkainand humans can get along, and wielding many powerful treasures. She loses the Pagoda just once, and suddenly everyone treats her like some ditz who'd lose her head if she were a dullahan. Also then there's maneating monster like Love and Peace (fuck you Shimadoriru), but those arent nearly as common.

 

• Hata no Kokoro - Honestly nothing really drastic. The only real difference between her and Canon is fanon is typically shown her to be emotionless despite the fact she's only expressionless. Which is bizarre because she has some expressions within fanon and her masks aren't often used at all. Or aren't the main outlet to showcase her emotions. Essentially, strip Kokoro of her main gimmick and give her something she doesn't have. I don't really like it but some works are very cute and I usually like how her and Koishi are shown. Not necessarily lovers. Rivals but also somewhat friends. Usually innocent.
• Momiji Inubashiri - Lust and thirsty for Aya. Usually. She is shown to be fairly mature but I struggle to find many works that don't just have her lusting for Aya. The ones I do find I typically enjoy. She's serious but not too serious. Typically being an active member of a joke (although she doesn't necessarily make them). I do find her relation to Aya strange since in canon, they have problems with each other. I'm fine with AyaxMomiji but you would think you'd see more tsundere based works (which there are some. Aya being the tease and Momiji being the tsun). But a lot of what I've seen typically just have the two being 100% close or very in your face in love (even if they don't know they have feelings towards one another.)

 

• In fanon, Yumemi is often depicted with a lot of crosses and / or being a diehard Christian as seen in some fanworks like my fangame. But a way more common aspect (also can be found in my fangame) is her depiction with strawberries and / or having strawberries as her favourite food. However, it is rare for people to explain Yumemi’s cross-chucking ability as seen under a religious lens, so I hopped in and make my own explanation: She is a descendant of an archangel, and that ability is given to her by her angelic ancestor.

 

• Shion:Fanon usually portrays her as a innocent,shy blue mokou that always gets berated by joon, while canon Shion is actually quite greedy(which is understandable, she is after all a goddess of poverty) is treated better by joon as shown in their scenario and in 17.5. And can flare up(In chapter 45 of WaHH she got pissed when kasen called the food cheap and low quality, and very recently became josuke 2.0 when Big spoon lady called Joon and Shion “a pair of eternal poors”.

 

• Kaguya: An immortal NEET otaku princess who relies on Eirin and loves to kill Mokou for fun. The otaku part is relatable and believable enough for an exiled Lunarian who spent centuries locked indoors. I think fanon tends to miss that she's quite sociable, hosting Lunarian artifacts expos and acting as the head of Eientei house, which consists of a whole lot of Earth rabbit youkai, not just Reisen and Tewi. The relies on Eirin part is also just wrong, she spent a long time on her own before Eirin came along, possibly adventured to acquire the impossible requests herself, and is probably better at killing than the vast majority of Gensokyans, but she's only a threat if your name is Mokou. Not to mention, she actually comes to Eirin's aid in the Last Spell of Final A.
• Mokou: Honestly pretty accurate to canon, she fucking hates Kaguya and Keine is her good friend. Maybe her hate for Kaguya is exaggerated/flanderized like all traits tend to be, but the disputably-canon Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth managed to show a more lighthearted side to her feud with Kaguya. I think the only thing fanon tends to forget about Mokou is that she grew up in a noble household before consuming the Elixir.

 

 

[TheM3ds]

2 hours ago, BigBoople said:

Even comparing eastern europe to Japan isn't really going to be the same. The most you could say that you're lacking is that the Westernization of Japan is heavily American, so i guess you're even FURTHER from Japan than I am in terms of culture.

Boy this was such a bitter pill to swallow, but yes I'll admit that meant to bring up the fact that Japan culture was influenced by America, but at the time I wasn't thinking straight, so I guess you're more well informed that I am.

I should've fact checked beforehand but what's done is done, so I apologize for my ignorance. 

[Darksymphony777]

25 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Meiling: the fans completely ignore any canon material establishing her as a competent fighter that regularly receives challengers and a good gatekeeper and instead repeat the same joke about her being lazy, sleeping and getting knifed by Sakuya like a broken record repeating itself. The fans also tend to lean way too hard on admittedly kinda racist Chinese stereotypes with her like people portraying her as a communist or funni super idol social credit. She is also depicted as being a huge friend of Flandre and Sakuya’s lover too. She’s also subject to the oversized boobs thing as well

Her being a competent fighter is thrown completely out the window since the whole series resolves things through danmaku which meiling is most likely not good at hence why in the fighting games she the purest fighter in the game.

31 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Rumia she doesn't even have a character, just the "girl who eats people."

I believe that grimoire might have mentioned that rumina does try to eat people, she's just horrible at it

28 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Suwako: you've heard of goth loli, now get ready for frog loli. I guess that seems like the natural way fanon would take it, though some ignore the fact that she is a god even Kanako tries to keep you from. Fanon generally goes for this innocent young child image, when there should probably be at least a tinge of wisdom and power somewhere.

I legit picture suwako as a somewhat pessimistic goddess ready to die due to simply thinking everything must come to an end but also wanting kanako to let her do her thing so she ends up simply going with the flow....also she's quite possibly the only other character besides Junko to possibly have had sex so there is that

 

41 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Kanako: Aside from her being a granny the likes of Yukari

She gets that from the fact her and all the other older looking characters stand somewhat out of place from all the young looking characters in gensokyo hence "the old maid club"

 

42 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Shinmyoumaru: apparently the subject of torture recently, including blenders (seriously..?). Calm down, guys. That aside, fanon can't seem to agree how big she is. Some have her mere millimeters in hight while others have her comparable to a child. Personally, three apples seems reasonable

Well no one knows how tall anyone is in touhou

 

43 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Okuu: the idiot to rival Cirno, or so everyone thinks. Honestly, "idiot" wasn't the first impression I got when I faced her, but it was also easy mode, so what can I say? If she has to be dumb, she at least knows she's dumb in my book

Okuu is more of a savant, smart in all thing nuclear, but dumb everywhere else

44 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

As for Toyohime... yeah , fuck that , I'm not even gonna try and get into this clusterfuck that is what she's labeled as , the fanon destroyed her and made her and Yorihime into some of the most hated characters in the series. And it all stems from the fact that the Lunarians are as a race mostly dicks. Shame , because the canon lore about them is actually kind of interesting , it even shows that they're nice unlike the rest of the Lunar Capital

To be fair, ZUN did admit that they will never appear in the games ever and a large portion of the fanbase labeled them Mary Sue's which didn't help (hence why they don't make a appearance in LOLK leaving the implication that the purified fairies, clownpiece or Junko destroyed them and was never shown)

50 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Marisa: a sneaky witch with a huge tomboyish personality, she usually talks, moves, and acts like a boy, she's a sweetie for various people in Gensokyo, Alice is obsessed with her, Patchouli hates and loves her, Nitori is her best friend, Reimu hates and likes her, Flandre likes her, etc, she's also the ultimate thief and a Master spark spammer.

Aside from the fact her key character trait is that she's a kleptomaniac, hit the nail on the head

 

53 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Suika: Japanese goblin, Reimu's fangirl, a drunkass oni who's always happy, related to demoman, messy, didn't see too much of her.

She's a drunk ass oni who's always but also possibly on yukari levels of info gathering is she so wishes. Similar to Marisa her being happy to drink and be happy is canon but since she's based off the figure who not only leads the deva's but also becomes the ruler of oni, we might not have suika's story told yet

 

56 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Reisen: Niko Bellic bunny girl, victim of Tewi's trolling, Junko's victim, weed eater, Eirin's little experiment.

It's already established that tewi does go after reisen, but then again I'm pretty sure tewi goes after everyone and she's eirin's assistant so her having to test her products make a bit of sense

 

59 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Momiji Inubashiri - Lust and thirsty for Aya. Usually. She is shown to be fairly mature but I struggle to find many works that don't just have her lusting for Aya. The ones I do find I typically enjoy. She's serious but not too serious. Typically being an active member of a joke (although she doesn't necessarily make them). I do find her relation to Aya strange since in canon, they have problems with each other. I'm fine with AyaxMomiji but you would think you'd see more tsundere based works (which there are some. Aya being the tease and Momiji being the tsun). But a lot of what I've seen typically just have the two being 100% close or very in your face in love (even if they don't know they have feelings towards one another.)

My favorite version of momiji is from "being meiling" where she's shown to not only be the chief of security for the isolationist tengu clans but also Aya's parole officer (in the story Aya was shunned and thrown out by the tengu clans because she was getting support to get rid of the tengu caste system/ get rid of their isolationist ideals to allow commerce and trade. Getting thrown out she went straight feral from the isolation and created the bunbunmaru news as a way to keep sane and try to integrate into some kind of society....which leads her into conflict with meiling when she shows to start having a very unhealthy obsession with cirno)

 

Sorry for the long list but I wanted to put my thoughts on here

[Gou the frog]

Finally I'm all free of work. (sort of) I'm going to join the party right about now.

4 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Her being a competent fighter is thrown completely out the window since the whole series resolves things through danmaku which meiling is most likely not good at hence why in the fighting games she the purest fighter in the game.

Indeed, things are often decided around danmaku. She would be the purest fighter in the fighting game. Any other hand to hand using character could work as (they are very rare  ) Yuugi could be a very competent contender for Meiling since she rarely use danmaku & straight up beat the living crap out of her foes. She can't fight a battle without having her sake.

Though, they would be in a disadvantage at danmaku battles. 

 

4 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Meiling: the fans completely ignore any canon material establishing her as a competent fighter that regularly receives challengers and a good gatekeeper and instead repeat the same joke about her being lazy, sleeping and getting knifed by Sakuya like a broken record repeating itself. The fans also tend to lean way too hard on admittedly kinda racist Chinese stereotypes with her like people portraying her as a communist or funni super idol social credit. She is also depicted as being a huge friend of Flandre and Sakuya’s lover too. She’s also subject to the oversized boobs thing as well

 Meiling truly is one of my favorite character so, apologies for going off on this one.

Every Single Time In A Fangame Or A Fan Work, "Meiling" doesn't always sleep like a sloth during her guard duty or being a lazy sleeve ball or getting knife to China by fan's so called "Pad Chief". In the official works, she regularly gets challengers testing her fighting skills which Remilia herself enjoys and compliments her for being a "Good Gatekeeper". Not the always asleep, getting knife to the ground, oversized boobs owning super idol social credits, pet of "Maid" or "Vampire Child". The entire mansion cares about her and vice versa. She is one of the first character and favorites since I joined Touhou.

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Kanako: Aside from her being a granny the likes of Yukari

The fandom did the "elderly" very dirty. Most of the gods, sages and youkais are over 2000 years old. Yukari is 1200-1700 gap since she is older then the Gensokyo itself. Kanako & Suwako might be 2500-ish since the Suwa War was 2300 years ago. Both Hectia/Junko were from the Greeks and ancient China? So, they might as well be 4500-4800. Erin would be chilling in the moon before earth existed.

At the end of the day, every one in gensokyo is old. They might look old, young but they're pretty sensitive about their age. Like Darksymphony777 said old ones might as well be in the "old maid club" compared to the rest of the "young looking ones."

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Reisen: Niko Bellic bunny girl, victim of Tewi's trolling, Junko's victim, weed eater, Eirin's little experiment.

If I remember correctly, The white rabbit sets on an agreement with the bamboo princess: in return for hiding Eintei in the bamboo forest, the princess and lunar sage agrees to lend their hands for the rabbits living in the bamboo forest. 

Tewi just do what she wants, playing pranks on Reisen and every other touhous. But she is cleverer than you think. One second, the trolling bunny setting up a pitfall. Another, she might be having serious discussions with both the doctor & the Immortal princess. 

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Momiji Inubashiri - Lust and thirsty for Aya. Usually. She is shown to be fairly mature but I struggle to find many works that don't just have her lusting for Aya. The ones I do find I typically enjoy. She's serious but not too serious. Typically being an active member of a joke (although she doesn't necessarily make them). I do find her relation to Aya strange since in canon, they have problems with each other. I'm fine with AyaxMomiji but you would think you'd see more tsundere based works (which there are some. Aya being the tease and Momiji being the tsun). But a lot of what I've seen typically just have the two being 100% close or very in your face in love (even if they don't know they have feelings towards one another.)

They're acquaintances at best. Both doing their their jobs & being serious but not too serious at all. For me, they're like neighbors that're trying to get into the system together but having debates and having a few good laugh regularly.

 

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Rumia she doesn't even have a character, just the "girl who eats people."

She does try to eat people but usually fails because of her powers in total darkness. I'll give her lamprey fry from Mystia's Izakaya to cure the night blindness (even though it won't probably help her that much)

 

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Suwako: you've heard of goth loli, now get ready for frog loli. I guess that seems like the natural way fanon would take it, though some ignore the fact that she is a god even Kanako tries to keep you from. Fanon generally goes for this innocent young child image, when there should probably be at least a tinge of wisdom and power somewhere.

The frog loving goddess that I'm very fond of. She isn't worrying about herself getting faded when not getting enough faith. She will naturally go with the flow of which ever situation she is in, alongside with Kanako.

In my own headcannon, she a frog adoring granny. Since, granny in japan are often depecied as being small. She shall test your courage and your willingness and might actually like you.

 

4 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Okuu: the idiot to rival Cirno, or so everyone thinks. Honestly, "idiot" wasn't the first impression I got when I faced her, but it was also easy mode, so what can I say? If she has to be dumb, she at least knows she's dumb in my book

She is more like 'Son Goku' from Dragon Balls in my view. Know pretty well, when it comes to her stuff but if it comes to everything she needs to be with Orin. That's why Satori takes extra care of her pets. (& Koshi).

 

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Shinmyoumaru: apparently the subject of torture recently, including blenders (seriously..?). Calm down, guys. That aside, fanon can't seem to agree how big she is. Some have her mere millimeters in hight while others have her comparable to a child. Personally, three apples seems reasonable

She in an inchling with a miracle wallet. A size of a medium water bottle works for me.

 

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

As for Toyohime... yeah , fuck that , I'm not even gonna try and get into this clusterfuck that is what she's labeled as , the fanon destroyed her and made her and Yorihime into some of the most hated characters in the series. And it all stems from the fact that the Lunarians are as a race mostly dicks. Shame , because the canon lore about them is actually kind of interesting , it even shows that they're nice unlike the rest of the Lunar Capital

I was naïve back then having the same ideology with "fandom" viewing them as bad characters. Like Yin & Yang, I will not judge the book by its cover. So, I learnt a lot about both of the sisters and they were nicer than I anticipated; Getting invaded by the heroine in their home land and playing by their rules: Danmaku Battles, instead of fighting the traditional way. Their story help Remiu & Yukari to further develop their characters. Some people said the Watatsukis' designs and stories were blend but I think they are very interesting. They're like the more hardworking and powerful version of over beloved Sage and Miko Of Hakurei. After all, they're leaders of the moon and usually a bit of prick.

I think the hate & saltiness comes from Silent Sinner In the Blue, since they defeated our heroines; Remilia, Yukari, Remiu. They are very strong but people doesn't want to see their character defeated by new "over-powered" donkey characters. Seriously, they need to relocate their lamb sauce.

 

5 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

Marisa: a sneaky witch with a huge tomboyish personality, she usually talks, moves, and acts like a boy, she's a sweetie for various people in Gensokyo, Alice is obsessed with her, Patchouli hates and loves her, Nitori is her best friend, Reimu hates and likes her, Flandre likes her, etc, she's also the ultimate thief and a Master spark spammer.

Very hardworking but doesn't really like to show her hardwork, comes out as a tomboyish girl who has eaten thirteen slices of bread and like to spam master spark which was taken referenced by Kazami Yuuka. Ended up as a disciple of a vengeful spirt: now gone missing in the new era. Likes to occasionally compare strength with the miko of Hakurei showing of her new spell cards, departed from her father home because he said magician sucks girl. Now living in a misma-filled funky forest, near a dolly magician not far from Mr. Merchant Guy with glasses whom is unironically not a woman and spends her time collecting all kinds of mushrooms with a jizou statue watching her like "Yo, fam, needs to take a break from stealing stuff from the Red Mansion from the Misty Lake not far from here."  Very accraute De-Ze. nut

 

7 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Suika: Japanese goblin, Reimu's fangirl, a drunkass oni who's always happy, related to demoman, messy, didn't see too much of her.

Most youkais/peoples' all time favorite character "Miss Sukia" join the battle in smash. (Not) Yet. She is happy go lucky in canon alongside with Marisa who is on the same info gathering level as Yukari. (Marisa excluded) She's is a very good friend with the train sage of Gensokyo. The power to control density must be nice, transforming yourself into mist can say "I'm Oni Man" behind other youkais must be pretty intimating & intimidating. Wait aren't there a fourth deva? I wonder what the dude she is doing?

 

Whoo, finally it's done, took a while to write all of this. Ah yes, I've work to do. (30 remaining lectures to watch).

I might not be free for a couple of days but you gents & ladies can discuss the topic in place of me. Farewell for now. 

[adzi]

"oversized boobs owning super idol social credits"

Ah, yes. Somehow, the newer memes about Meiling revolve way too much around Chinese politics, imho.

Otherwise, it's always good to see China... not being done dirty.

Also, say what you want about the Satori manga, but she makes tea nicely.

[Isaac]

I've been wanting to talk about the flanderization of Parsee for a while now. Parsee is sometimes depicted as another psychopath who will curse and kill anyone she is slightly jealous over. It could be over literally anything no matter how small it is. I don't think any of this would actually happen though.

I also don't think she'd be jealous 24/7 like some depict her, this would happen mostly while battling. I honestly think Parsee is really sweet and she easily became my favourite. Her dialogue in touhou 11 with Reimu and Marisa was mainly just giving a warning but she greeted them nicely. I love her design and her theme so much! Although, I can see why people don't like her if what I mentioned before or the memes were annoying.

Cursing is part of the Hashihime's backstory but if I'm being honest, the characters in touhou aren't heavily bound by mythology. For example, regular oni's are depicted as evil and murderous, but Suika and Yuugi are some of the nicest in the series.