[Inaccurate] The problems of modern Touhou and how to solve them (+ some info about doujin scene)

[vanyk]

I guess it's more about awareness since your works fully covering mentioned topics in them.

About awareness agree. But sometimes I see that some my posts doesn't fully cover mentioned topics (that mostly happens after months the post was published, because during such period of time you can find and learn a lot of things you didn't know before).

Touhou has no starter point to get dragged in (You can obviously start from touhou 2/6, but it doesn't really matter if you start getting intrested in touhou from written work or any kind of music since it leads to one thing - getting into series), and it really never needed it because it's like putting together a puzzle to get one image in result.

Agree that there is no starting point. The only problem is that a lot of fans are interested only in some aspects of the series, and the things which are not on the surface are very likely to be missed.

It was always this way and even now, but touhou got distorted and ZUN really needs to do retrospection on his series to realise the things that made touhou as touhou and reappraise what he really wants for touhou.

From lore side ZUN tried to do retrospection of old characters in FDS. About the whole series, well, he just does what he wants to do. Things just work, so he doesn't change them. What actually are "the things that made touhou as touhou"? For different people they are different. From gameplay side it can be from patterns themselves to scoring, for these things you can play fangames as ZUN doesn't improve these aspects. From music side, well, ZUN still does good music (but not everyone agrees with this) (+ Touhou style music exists nowadays). About lore and story it always was vague and "not perfect" and it was good for fanwork creators. From the side of doujin circles, "any Touhou work can be sold" was very important.

It is hard to say what ZUN actually wants to do with the series. Maybe the printing work ZUN is doing now will show us that?

In realistic scenario he is only one able to carry this out, he needs to work only with people who actually care about touhou itself as series(opinion of a dilettante(who asked>?)).

Somewhat yes, but he works with some people (and asked some help with UDoALG and the patch for it). + Recently, he drank beer with some doujin circles, they could offer some help and ideas (if I remember correctly many of them + BeatMARIO asked to make games harder). Also, ZUN works with Ruw (does he care about the series and fans? The answer is obvious. But it is important to note that he didn't appear out of nothere), and already have a lot of contracts with semi-official (do all of them actually care abiut the series?). ZUN can become less lazy and begin to work more with people, but there are some things that would be hard to change for him.

If there's manual work that can be putted on someone else i would be glad to help with this.

For now I don't have such work to do. If you are not afraid of statistics and monotonous work, then you can try to make lists of all unique Touhou circles for each year (some ideas how it can be used were offered here). About less boring work, if you have access to QQ, I can offer you to count the scale of Chinese Touhou Doujin (make a table of all Chinese Touhou-only events (THBWiki's one is not full)). Or you can read some research papers and come up with your own idea for your research.

 

[Bhrjr]

If there's manual work that can be putted on someone else i would be glad to help with this.

Alright, so you do have passions for Touhou and want to work on projects to better Touhou. When the time comes for my fananime project, I'll give you a heads up and see if you can help.

 

[Bonnie MKII]

About the "decentralization", every fanbase had been decentralized in some way or another. The most infamous example is Sonic the hedgehog.

 

[greener]

Also, ZUN works with Ruw (does he care about the series and fans? The answer is obvious. But it is important to note that he didn't appear out of nothere)

i know that Ruw kinda sucks but is he that bad? (or even worse could he actively trying to ruin the series)

 

[vanyk]

i know that Ruw kinda sucks but is he that bad? (or even worse could he actively trying to ruin the series)

Well, after digging ever more deep into this topic, I can say now that things are more complicated. The problem is that he is an old Touhou fan and he likes Touhou (in his way). But at the same time he wants to make money too. He has big influence on commercial Touhou activities (but he is not the only one who does it). He is ZUN's legal guy, he is responsible for legal side of Touhou fan activities (and he sends copy-write claims). He doesn't like some things that Touhou fans do, but ZUN is mostly okay with. In some cases he sends claims (like in that case when a Chinese fan used ZUN's image), but sometimes he doesn't (for example he recently said that he doesn't like Fake April 1 Touhou announcements, because they violate guidelines (but he didn't send any claims)). Ruw is a good organizer, this is one of the reasons why he became closer to ZUN. I cannot say that he doesn't care about Touhou, but his care to Touhou is more from commercial side. His goal isn't to ruin Touhou as a series (he makes money from it, lol), but some his decisions makes Touhou less fan but more commercial.
For now, I will say that there are people who are worse than Ruw.

 

[Bonnie MKII]

For now, I will say that there are people who are worse than Ruw.

I remember there was someone who copyrighted a well known meme. It's Yukkuris. And it was so bad that he was scrutinized forever for it.

 

[vanyk]

I remember there was someone who copyrighted a well known meme. It's Yukkuris. And it was so bad that he was scrutinized forever for it.

No, I am not about this. The problem is that Yuzuha in result didn't make money from Touhou. There are people who are worse than Ruw and who make money from Touhou.

 

[vanyk]

Hello. I want to say that I am still gathering material for the post about commercialization (yes, I am doing this for a long time). My goal is to cover nearly every information about this. This helps to find quite a lot of obscure information which is not well-known in the West (but that doesn't mean that such information is insignificant), to find shady things, to find relations between different groups, etc.

My point is still the same: a lot of kinds of commercialization already existed by 2008. But since then there have been a lot of changes too. Such changes became noticeable since 2017-2020 when a lot of semi-official group began their activities and companies began to do things which are considered to be much more commercial than simple goods (one of such things are gachas). But the obvious questions here are: "were there things that lead to this?" and "were there similar things before but in another form?". And a lot of things happened between 2008 and 2017.

Sadly, I cannot say, when I would finish this post, there is still a lot of things that I haven't fully researched.
If you have some obscure fact (with sources) related to commercialization, I would appreciate it if you shared it with me.
By the way, the number of links in my source list is around 2000 already.

I just wanted to say that I am still working on this.
If you have questions I may answer them.

 

[Bhrjr]

Ruw is a good organizer,

Wait, where'd you get the source for that?
And I'm also interested in "worse than Ruw who make money from touhou". The closest thing I can think of are Cronicle Zero with their crowdfunding scam, but the way you word it sounds like these dudes have been "nefariously" making money from 2hu then and is still doing it to this day.

 

[vanyk]

Wait, where'd you get the source for that?

From many places. (about his early activities Web Archive, for newer ones news articles, interviews and other things)
He organizes many things: from gathering people to help ZUN on his booth on Reitaisai and organizing ski tours (yes, he did that) to organizing events and conferences. + Mediascape things, there are a lot of them.
Also not many people thought how exactly he got closer to ZUN, but in 00s he organized some things which could really impress ZUN (+ he did one interesting thing, but that is a spoiler for my next article (idk when I will finish it)).

And I'm also interested in "worse than Ruw who make money from touhou". The closest thing I can think of are Cronicle Zero with their crowdfunding scam, but the way you word it sounds like these dudes have been "nefariously" making money from 2hu then and is still doing it to this day.

Comparing to this person (and his things) Cronicle Zero is a little thing. (By the way I have some information which indicates that Cronicle Zero may come back (maybe in another form))
If you are interested one of his quotes below

Spoiler

We will make a proper profit from it, so if you're not interested, please stand in the back.

He said that directly to ZUN. And he actually makes profit (not from "it" (for which I will not give context (which is interesting too) for now, but you can try to find it yourself), but from many other things).

Many people talk about Ruw, but they don't pay mach attention to other semi-officials. They also do interesting things.

 

[greener]

From many places. (about his early activities Web Archive, for newer ones news articles, interviews and other things)
He organizes many things: from gathering people to help ZUN on his booth on Reitaisai and organizing ski tours (yes, he did that) to organizing events and conferences. + Mediascape things, there are a lot of them.
Also not many people thought how exactly he got closer to ZUN, but in 00s he organized some things which could really impress ZUN (+ he did one interesting thing, but that is a spoiler for my next article (idk when I will finish it)).

Comparing to this person (and his things) Cronicle Zero is a little thing. (By the way I have some information which indicates that Cronicle Zero may come back (maybe in another form))
If you are interested one of his quotes below

Spoiler

He said that directly to ZUN. And he actually makes profit (not from "it" (for which I will not give context (which is interesting too) for now, but you can try to find it yourself), but from many other things).

Many people talk about Ruw, but they don't pay mach attention to other semi-officials. They also do interesting things.

Yo am back and the whole place is going on red alert cuz touhou creators and songs are getting striked with copyright because they include touhou music. Is ruw behind this? If he is then he is absolutely tripping

 

[vanyk]

Is ruw behind this?

The one who sends copyright claims is Ruw. But it is unknown is he does it on his own or somebody told him to do this.

 

[greener]

The one who sends copyright claims is Ruw. But it is unknown is he does it on his own or somebody told him to do this.

This is gonna hit muchhhh harder than the moriya shrine strike

 

[vanyk]

This is gonna hit muchhhh harder than the moriya shrine strike

Well, I told my opinion about this here: https://moriyashrine.org/members/vanyk.26558/#profile-post-3147

 

[greener]

Well, I told my opinion about this here: https://moriyashrine.org/members/vanyk.26558/#profile-post-3147

So ruw is actively damaging the fanbase rn

 

[Bonnie MKII]

Pretty much.

 

[Dr_Fishnberg]

I'm just gonna put this here, someone on reddit once mentioned this, so this is also kind of providing a evidence of existence
Context: A Fan draws a cute illustration on how Touhou Fan works are made, and the that Ruw (ZUN's lawyer guy) isnt very happy about it
Heres the rough translations:
"Actually, this is a misleading illustration"
>The Touhou Project itself does not include derivative works. (lie)
>ZUN does not officially approve of individual derivative works. (lie) (LostWord is officially licenced, and he even showed up in their livestreams)
>The drawing does not fall under the category of derivative works. Both illustrations are misleading and inappropriate, and comparing them is a bad move that will tarnish the image

THIS GUY ACTS AS IF HE IS THE CREATOR OF TOUHOU!?!? No wonder the Chinese fandom called him coup d'état because this guy really is unhinged...

===


Well, legally in some ways he isnt too far from being wrong, but man this guy really forgets what touhou itself is at some times...
I argue he is "modern touhou problem" in human form. In some cases he is straight up being unprofessional with his actions, espicially using his being ZUN's lawyer as a means to take down fan uploads.

 

[greener]

View attachment 9863
I'm just gonna put this here, someone on reddit once mentioned this, so this is also kind of providing a evidence of existence
Context: A Fan draws a cute illustration on how Touhou Fan works are made, and the that Ruw (ZUN's lawyer guy) isnt very happy about it
Heres the rough translations:
"Actually, this is a misleading illustration"
>The Touhou Project itself does not include derivative works. (lie)
>ZUN does not officially approve of individual derivative works. (lie) (LostWord is officially licenced, and he even showed up in their livestreams)
>The drawing does not fall under the category of derivative works. Both illustrations are misleading and inappropriate, and comparing them is a bad move that will tarnish the image

THIS GUY ACTS AS IF HE IS THE CREATOR OF TOUHOU!?!? No wonder the Chinese fandom called him coup d'état because this guy really is unhinged...

===
View attachment 9864

Well, legally in some ways he isnt too far from being wrong, but man this guy really forgets what touhou itself is at some times...
I argue he is "modern touhou problem" in human form. In some cases he is straight up being unprofessional with his actions, espicially using his being ZUN's lawyer as a means to take down fan uploads.
View attachment 9865

Why must all of this happen right now... I just got back to touhou for a few months and all this happen

 

[vanyk]

I'm just gonna put this here, someone on reddit once mentioned this, so this is also kind of providing a evidence of existence
Context: A Fan draws a cute illustration on how Touhou Fan works are made, and the that Ruw (ZUN's lawyer guy) isnt very happy about it
Heres the rough translations:
"Actually, this is a misleading illustration"
>The Touhou Project itself does not include derivative works. (lie)
>ZUN does not officially approve of individual derivative works. (lie) (LostWord is officially licenced, and he even showed up in their livestreams)
>The drawing does not fall under the category of derivative works. Both illustrations are misleading and inappropriate, and comparing them is a bad move that will tarnish the image

THIS GUY ACTS AS IF HE IS THE CREATOR OF TOUHOU!?!? No wonder the Chinese fandom called him coup d'état because this guy really is unhinged...

Well, I mentioned this incident in the post, so I am surprised that people only now noticed that.

Well, legally in some ways he isnt too far from being wrong, but man this guy really forgets what touhou itself is at some times...

And he sometimes forgets how Doujin scene works.

I argue he is "modern touhou problem" in human form. In some cases he is straight up being unprofessional with his actions, espicially using his being ZUN's lawyer as a means to take down fan uploads.

Well, this is a complex problem and it should be solved.

 

[Bonnie MKII]

Unsurprising

 

[John_Smith]

needs more awards and liquify tool to accurately portray him