Collection of smaller threads, part 1

[CountVonNumenor]

Gonna try a bit of a different formula. Instead of one big thread, I will split this into multiple smaller threads put together. Since they may not have enough material on themselves, I will post them like this. If the formula works, I might try it again in the future.

Cookies*

Yesterday, I have been a little too vague with the status question in regards to this fanon product. Alright, so apparently this Touhou Cookies thing is a thing. I have heard of it long ago, yet had no idea what it is. I never fell down its rabbit hole, but heard some stuff about it. From what I understood, it started as a series a cheesy and poor quality animations featuring the Touhou characters, then became its own thing using the 2hus and expy versions of them and all got place in a parallel universe. Then there is also what some of those who worked on it became infamous for (I still do not really understand what happened though). Initially, I though this was a thing that was popular a decade ago, but died out since. However, it seems like it have become more popular than ever recently, at least if you check on Danbooru how much art tagged as "Cookies*" has been uploaded recently. Where did this popularity and recent resurgence come from? Also how did Billy Herrington/Gachimuchi end up being associated with this, and with Touhou as a whole?

Brief overview of the Memories of Phantasm episodes I have seen

Until now, I only managed to watch that series up to Episode 8. From my brief experience with it, over a year ago, this is what I can remember out of each episode:

• Episode 1: very much a confusing timeline (the whole thing starts at the end of MoF?), then goes back to PCB in the story-inside-the-story. Since Touhou 7 was covered in just 1 episode, it feels extremely rushed all the way up to Stage 5. And do we deal with Youmu? Marisa rams her into a wall before going further. Oh, also bored Reimu. Gonna rate it Yuyuko "Ara Ara Ara"/10 (not kidding, this is a literal line she has in the episode)
  
• Episode 2: I...just can't remember too much out of it. All I know is that the EoSD arc starts here, and we get the fanservice hotsprings opening for the first time. 
  
• Episode 3: first 3 minutes of totally not visible nude Ran and Yukari in their own hotspring scene (with convenient water reflection, steam and gaps to steal sake) - also Chen f-ing drowns because cats hate water. Also I guess this is the episode where Reimu has her fight against Sakuya (man, does Sakuya's skirt get shorter with each of her appearances in that show). Rating: "Touhou visual learner"/10
  
• Episode 4: YING-YANG ORB TO THE FACE! Sorry, I mean incident solution. Marisa can also be useful in solving incidents, and makes for a cool narrator ze. Also Reimu nukes the SDM with her powers (cannot be a Touhou doujin is the SDM does not explode)
  
• Episode 5: here starts the filler. All I can remember about this episode is Aya running around to get photos, while getting in a bit of trouble with a rain of knives at the SDM. Oh, also Yuuka get her couple minutes of screentime. She is menacing, but gives for some subverted expectations in her interaction with Cirno. Even Aya was disappointed in the result.
  

Yuuka in Manpukujinja style art looks gorgeous. I mean moving on...

• Episode 6: Donald Duck voice Eiki Shiki. She proves to be small (she's so tiny in this anime!), and nagging for an entire night. She also get punched in the face by Marisa. Now I wonder what her afterlife sentence will be...
  
• Episode 7: last one I have seen. Hisoutensoku, but from the PoV of Cirno. Frozen frogs, frozen Daiyousei ("Cirno-chan no baka!!") as a running gag, and a fight against Okuu. Now we have the ⑨ facing the ⑥. Dai and Cirno get back as friends, and share a totally not "kiss already!" kind of moment. Oh, there's also Alice. Thank god this version of Alice is calm, and seems so far from her fanon depiction (heard she's like that in the IN arc too)
  

Touhou memes

Touhou has marked its presence online for many years, getting numerous fans. And just like many other things online, it also spawned a lot of memes. However, every time I get to see them, some are better, while some should just disappear. Now asking for your opinions. What are some of the stale memes that any Touhou newbie should be aware of? What memes are still ok after so many years, and which should have died ages ago, but are still persistent in the community?

Fanart

Has ever happened to you to end up liking a character more than you expected just because they have good fanart? I will be honest. That (literally everything Danbooru had on the topic), combined with the Gensokyo Chronicles (seriously, we need a new book in that series to cover the rest of the games until 18) and the interview from Who's Who of Human and Youkai made me get Akyuu on the first place among the 2hus. But I really think the good fanart has had quite a bit of contribution to that. Other characters from my main 10 where that happened (the fanart part) have been Tenkyuu, Okuu, Hecatia, Raiko (although there was also music and arrangements) and perhaps a few more. Is this something more common?

Is Touhou getting a nastier side?

There is still this general impression that the Touhou fandom is a wholesome one, where nothing bas can happen. That we are safe from politics and social media drama. However, I feel this might no longer be the case. It is better to ignore, but still cannot deny it exists. In short, Danbooru gave me two such instances - the dark skin Eiki image I have mentioned in another thread, and now a parody of the conflict ongoing in the country next to me (or better said a parody of what allegedly happened at a Russian television) - guess the "if something exists, there will be a Touhou version of it" still applies, no matter what. And with acts like these, we have brought real world politics into Touhou. Which is a bit sad and disappointing, since normally you would like to use something like Touhou as a way to escape the problems of real live, not carry them with you even in something you really like. Since this kind of stuff only brings out the worst out of us, can we not just keep it out as human beings for just 5 minutes?

If this formula has success, I might be using it more when it comes to shorter topics gather together in a sort of mega-thread.

 

[ACE_DEUCE]

Cookies*

Yesterday, I have been a little too vague with the status question in regards to this fanon product. Alright, so apparently this Touhou Cookies thing is a thing. I have heard of it long ago, yet had no idea what it is. I never fell down its rabbit hole, but heard some stuff about it. From what I understood, it started as a series a cheesy and poor quality animations featuring the Touhou characters, then became its own thing using the 2hus and expy versions of them and all got place in a parallel universe. Then there is also what some of those who worked on it became infamous for (I still do not really understand what happened though). Initially, I though this was a thing that was popular a decade ago, but died out since. However, it seems like it have become more popular than ever recently, at least if you check on Danbooru how much art tagged as "Cookies*" has been uploaded recently. Where did this popularity and recent resurgence come from? Also how did Billy Herrington/Gachimuchi end up being associated with this, and with Touhou as a whole?

Cookie☆ is a meme subculture mostly present on NND stemming from one poorly made voice drama featuring Touhou characters (later incorporating some others too I think?). It's hard to get into if you don't speak any Japanese, and it's mostly just stupid joke lore that people create around the characters (who are here usually represented by their voice actors rather than the character they play, which is why you for example seemingly have multiple Nazrins or Marisas, it's actually completely separate characters). I believe the recent surge in popularity comes from one specific voice actress (Nyon) and the character she portrays being brought to the attention of the western fanbase? At least, that's the one I've seen being featured in a decent chunk of the recent non-Japanese memes relating to the subject. I'm not sure about any controversies that the creators may have been involved with (though maybe the original director was accused of sexual harassment at some point? I don't really remember), the only trivia that I can recall off the top of my head is that I believe one of the voice actresses is now a VTuber working for Hololive.

Also, Cookie☆ isn't linked with Gachimuchi, it's often associated with Inmu, a different homoerotic cinematic piece. This comes from the fact that when some trolls were trying to add irrelevant meme tags to the original upload, one added the tag for that movie which caught the attention of people making MADs using that movie as source material and they just sort of began to use Cookie☆ as a source as well. Today, Cookie☆ is generally seen as an entirely separate thing from Touhou itself and is more closely linked to Inmu and the MAD subculture on NND than anything necessarily Touhou-related.

Regarding the other point, there is no intrinsic link between Gachi and Touhou. It's just that Gachi MADs are rather popular, and Touhou music is also a very popular choice for creating MADs out of. This then leads to an inevitable overlap between the two.

 

[Turbonator]

Yuuka in Manpukujinja style art looks gorgeous.

So true.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I mean yeah, she does look cool in that illustration/animation style. 

 

Regarding the other point, there is no intrinsic link between Gachi and Touhou. It's just that Gachi MADs are rather popular, and Touhou music is also a very popular choice for creating MADs out of. This then leads to an inevitable overlap between the two.

So to understand

• the connection with Gachimuchi comes because MADs and misuse of tags online
  
• one of the reasons for a resurgence in popularity of Cookies might be due to one one of voice actresses
  
• yes, apparently one of those in charge with that project was indeed accused of sexual harassment 
  
• and apparently, Cookies did start as a small thing, but which got somehow hijacked and turned into its own alternative universe of Touhou
  

Seems like the Cookies part got an answer. What about the rest of the thread(s)? I start thinking if it could have been better for me to just post them separately, so that people would know what to focus on. 

 

[Isaac]

Seems like the Cookies part got an answer. What about the rest of the thread(s)? I start thinking if it could have been better for me to just post them separately, so that people would know what to focus on. 

I'd love to talk more about memories of phantasm and I was thinking about making a thread dedicated to who everyone's favourite artists are. There are some artists who have helped a lot in deciding my favourite characters.

 

[Queen Honeybumble]

Has ever happened to you to end up liking a character more than you expected just because they have good fanart?

It's because of this that I end up liking many characters, since even though I've been a Touhou fan for a long time, I also don't play the games super often, nor engage in other related media. So fanart (or music) ends up being my first window into a lot of characters, like Koishi or Kutaka for example. Sometimes though I just don't vibe with a character at first and it's other people's opinions and art that convince me to like them, like with Parsee.   

So yeah for me anyways it's pretty common, because otherwise I miss out on a lot of characters.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I'd love to talk more about memories of phantasm

I would definitely love to see more talk on that anime. However, I have not seen too much in here, at least as far as I am aware. And it feels a bit like a shame, since this is basically the go-to (fan-made) anime when it comes to Touhou. I looks so convincing people even fall in the trap it is an official product, when actually it isn't. Anyway, will the comment be in here or in a separate dedicated thread?

It's because of this that I end up liking many characters, since even though I've been a Touhou fan for a long time, I also don't play the games super often, nor engage in other related media. So fanart (or music) ends up being my first window into a lot of characters, like Koishi or Kutaka for example. Sometimes though I just don't vibe with a character at first and it's other people's opinions and art that convince me to like them, like with Parsee.   

So yeah for me anyways it's pretty common, because otherwise I miss out on a lot of characters.

It happened to me multiple times. And like I said in the opening comment, a decent chunk out of my Top 10 favorites have come to be thanks to the large amount of good fanart surrounding them. At one point, I started to collect so much of it I ended up with an entire collection that is currently 19.4K pictures on Pinterest. 

https://pin.it/MNNdFCb

 

[Isaac]

I would definitely love to see more talk on that anime. However, I have not seen too much in here, at least as far as I am aware. And it feels a bit like a shame, since this is basically the go-to (fan-made) anime when it comes to Touhou. I looks so convincing people even fall in the trap it is an official product, when actually it isn't. Anyway, will the comment be in here or in a separate dedicated thread?

I will mention more about the anime here then probably make a separate thread later. Before I go in depth, I wanted to talk about the other topics you mentioned.

Memes:

A lot of memes have aged well but I'm going to be honest about some. In my opinion, the recent ones I can't stand have been fumo related. This doesn't to apply all of them and I think most are cute. However, some people will take any scenario, no matter how awful it is or without having context, and think adding fumos will make it appropriate.

I guess the other ones I can't stand are character depictions. It's nice to see people who don't agree with them or have different views once they understand how others feel :)

Time to talk about the fandom. Even if most have the impression that the fandom is wholesome, I haven't felt the same. The drama might be not be mainstream, but you still find it anywhere. I've lost count on how many people I blocked from the awful stuff they were posting. Some would use touhou to justify whatever awful views they had and I don't understand why. 

You guys have all been nice though :)

 

[Queen Honeybumble]

You guys have all been nice though :)

You a homie, Isaac, don't let all the negativity get to you bro. :KoishiXD:     <3
On the topic of memes, I don't know about stale stuff but the fanmade lighthearted music videos on YouTube are and always will be a classic. Does it even need mentioning though I mean you have a huge collection of wacky memes, animations, fumo videos and joke music from like 10 years ago and onward to today. I'd say a majority of Touhou memes just have a timeless and classic vibe to them that persists throughout the ages, somehow. I pretty much spent all last night discovering ancient Touhou memes until I passed out. It's awesome.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I will mention more about the anime here then probably make a separate thread later. Before I go in depth, I wanted to talk about the other topics you mentioned.

Again, cannot wait to seem ore opinons on that animation. And for any of the othermini-threads too. 

A lot of memes have aged well but I'm going to be honest about some. In my opinion, the recent ones I can't stand have been fumo related. This doesn't to apply all of them and I think most are cute. However, some people will take any scenario, no matter how awful it is or without having context, and think adding fumos will make it appropriate.

Yeah, for some reason I still get back to those memes from like 10+ years ago. There's something about them that makes them still usable. Maybe not all of them (like fanon Alice, Sakuya wearing pads and others), but there are still a lot of god ones. As for Fumo memes, I did not really see too many of those, therefore I was not too bothered by their existence. Maybe that they influenced the Fumo sales in the past year, sure. I really need to write that Fumo thread at one point. But yeah, it does seem like something you could easily sneak in just in an attempt to make a meme more appealing no matter how bad it is. And if we are still here, I do not really understand the meme of deep frying Fumo, throwing them off a bridge or destroying them in any other way. 

Spoiler

And speaking of Fumo and Fumo jokes. Did you know some godless creatures have actually created Fumo lewd/hentai? Just like the innocent GyateGyate has been corrupted too. Which is a shame, because GyateGyate art can be quite fun and cute 

Time to talk about the fandom. Even if most have the impression that the fandom is wholesome, I haven't felt the same. The drama might be not be mainstream, but you still find it anywhere. I've lost count on how many people I blocked from the awful stuff they were posting. Some would use touhou to justify whatever political, racist or sexist views they had and I don't understand why. 

An interesting topic. I remember that months ago, while watching videos about fandoms and what makes a fandom wholesome or toxic, I have sen a lot of comments saying how Touhou is one of the, if not the most wholesome community there is or they have found. At the time, I did not know what Touhou is, so I rolled with it. Then I joined the fandom, and went with that idea for quite a lot of time. And since for a long time my experience with everything was chill (as long as staying far from #2hujerk), I still kept that view.  was not yet aware of the fact I was actually just stuck in a little bubble, and things were more complicated than that. 

I think this comments exchange covers pretty well what image people tend to have about the Touhou community vs how the community really is (oh the poor innocent original comment...)

Huh, for the longest time I struggled to see Touhou in any bad light (hence I gave it the title of the most "purest"  Fandom (at least compared to MHA and more mainstream stuff)) but this one could be the first stain I see in this community. Granted it is not THAT big of a stain, but a stain non of the less. Thanks for sharing this news. I still hold the opinion that Touhou still has THE most purest  Fandom compared to other franchises but no one is immune to mistakes. Here's for the hope that the next Touhou con is a good one!

EDIT - ok so a lot are saying things back at my statement so let me expand. When I say pure I dont mean free from R34 or hentai and stuff. that is 100% normal in any Japanese media. What I meant pure is in modern western anime terms. Like the MHA or Danganronpa fandom, I can never skip a day where I don't see someone in the fandom getting cancelled or trying to push a political thing or having backlash from creator to fan and etc. If anything I say the Kinda low profile of the Touhou community is a good thing as at least we mostly behave online. I rarely seen Touhou fans fuck up on that department. I use pure as I don't know any other word or phrase so if you all got better ideas, let me know.

And in reply to that first comment:

The Touhou community hides the smartest people. The percentage mathematicians / physicists, philosopher and musicians I found in the TH groups I join far exceeds any other community I have seen. I wouldn't call any community pure, because it's made up of human and as a creature, we are doomed to be flawed. I haven't played Lost Words, but I have played Danmaku Kagura (I was hyped about it cuz I haven't played a rhythm game like this for over 7 years). I played for 5 days and I quit, not because the game or the community is bad, but it just doesn't feel Touhou-like. Seeing all the fast-paced gaming experience just like other gacha / rhythm games I was... I can't say disappointed, but I doubt this is the core idea of Touhou. ZUN's personal / original goal of making Touhou is to use it as a medium for music, which is also the original reason I joined this fandom. However as I dug deeper I found things that sparked my interests: programming, philosophy and even mathematics. The beauty of all this is not their individual complexity, but rather how they come in at the right place and play their parts. As for conventions, I don't really give many shit now because the Japanese government is oppressing the holding of conventions for their potency in spreading Covid. This is still fine, but the way that they banish published materials for illegitimated reasons is what drive me and part of the fanbase off. That's why we have conventions held on the dark web (Onionket, search it up if you are interested), because the fanbase isn't the whole of the issue, but also the bullshit politics. On this point, with the amount of R-18 and even R-18G tags I have seen on Pixiv and booru is enough to put TH community high on the guillotine list of "feminism" and "child pornography". There's much more that I can go into with the horrible abduction of "freedom" and "justice" with an innocent community, but I think you get the picture. In the end, I do indeed hope that Touhou remains a huge yet behind-the-curtain community. Because the little amount of lore present in the original game, the space for creativity has definitely made it one of the most fascinating community ever. I don't wish things from this community make world headlines or become blockbusters, but when people comes around the corner and picked a piece of story up down at the space, I hope it could change their day a little. I have drifted too far away from the original topic, so sorry for wasting your 6 min of reading time, have a good day .

So yeah, this seems to be covering things at least decently.

On the topic of memes, I don't know about stale stuff but the fanmade lighthearted music videos on YouTube are and always will be a classic. Does it even need mentioning though I mean you have a huge collection of wacky memes, animations, fumo videos and joke music from like 10 years ago and onward to today. I'd say a majority of Touhou memes just have a timeless and classic vibe to them that persists throughout the ages, somehow. I pretty much spent all last night discovering ancient Touhou memes until I passed out. It's awesome.

I also do have a collection of old Touhou stuff. However, I have it mixed with the other memes in a bigger meme folder. Maybe I should put them together in a separate Touhou material playlist. Otherwise, I think I did express a bit of my opinion on the memes earlier in this reply. In short, they are quite entertaining and somehow want you to come back rewatch them. 

 

[CountVonNumenor]

This formula seems not be sparking too much discussion. I have two options now: either get back to the classic way i was writing threads, and develop each of these into its own separate discussion, or try to make things more interesting and engaging if that is the problem with the content. 

 

[Gou the frog]

This formula seems not be sparking too much discussion. I have two options now: either get back to the classic way i was writing threads, and develop each of these into its own separate discussion, or try to make things more interesting and engaging if that is the problem with the content. 

Honestly, the problem is that we need time to collect info and our thoughts as the more topic a thread has, the more discussion will spark the down side is that people are going to pick one of these and only talk about that and the classic formula handles that meanwhile this formula as I said, need more on the researching field and dedicated ones to be able to gain traction. It's not going to be easy Von but at least I'll try contribute to your threads as there're a lot to talk about in yours. 

The solution? Keep both of these method and take it easy lad 'cause you're bringing too much to the table although me and Issac can catch up to you. So, I appreciate you trying different methods and remember time will tell as I'm about to nuke your age post tomorrow.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Honestly, the problem is that we need time to collect info and our thoughts as the more topic a thread has, the more discussion will spark the down side is that people are going to pick one of these and only talk about that and the classic formula handles that meanwhile this formula as I said, need more on the researching field and dedicated ones to be able to gain traction. It's not going to be easy Von but at least I'll try contribute to your threads as there're a lot to talk about in yours. 

Yeah, I think you might be right. I have been using this formula since many ides were not developed enough to be their own thread. And since they were multiple topics, I was thinking people could take the one they are more interested in. You do not have to answer all of them (that would be a lo tof work and research), so you are given the freedom of picking the topic that caught your attention. Also thank you and Isaac for the contant contributions.

Next new thing will be more on the classical formula of one big thread. Spoiler, it will be related to a second over-analysis of a text I have been bringing forth quite a lot. 

 

[Isaac]

You a homie, Isaac, don't let all the negativity get to you bro. :KoishiXD:     <3
On the topic of memes, I don't know about stale stuff but the fanmade lighthearted music videos on YouTube are and always will be a classic. Does it even need mentioning though I mean you have a huge collection of wacky memes, animations, fumo videos and joke music from like 10 years ago and onward to today. I'd say a majority of Touhou memes just have a timeless and classic vibe to them that persists throughout the ages, somehow. I pretty much spent all last night discovering ancient Touhou memes until I passed out. It's awesome.

Thank you very much! I'll keep supporting all of you as much as I can too! :)

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Thank you both @Isaac and @Gou the frog (also to you too @Queen Honeybumble especially for the more recent interventions - you are also invited to the newest discussion thread I opened up this weekend) for the constant activity whenever I am writing something. Perhaps it would be better if I got back to the normal format? Even if apparently I am supposed to write short threads despite me wanting to write as much as I can. And if I write smaller stuff, then i feel I should write multiple short texts in one place for not filling with multiple threads of questions 3-4 lines long. 

Anyway, now that Fanservice + le horny thread part 2 is up, I think Fumo craze will be the next topic once this thread is losing its relevance.