Thoughts on the EOSD remake?

[SateriCat17]

Buy it yourself you sissy

Uhh... I don't have a bank account. Online bank accounts are also too complicated for me to understand for right now (as my mind ages slower than most people on account of my autism), so I couldn't buy it myself even if I wanted to.

 

[laselle]

as remakes and remasters are just one of the symptoms of a larger issue plaugeing it.

older X, boomers and millennials generations are the plague and what are causing the decay of the industry, grown up kids with higher with higher salary than when they were younger, and the companies know this,



final fantasy, dragon quest, monster hunter, resident all of them the average player base is above 30 already, Nintendo games are for kids, HA!! what a joke, kirby zelda and mario in general are also in the same bucket... real kids and teens, they play roblox, minecraft and whatsoever they see in youtube to play with their friends... and these average player that is in her/his late 30s or already in their 40s 50s got a higher income or stable situation at least, they know they can charge from them more than what a teen or a person in their 20s would...

now because im part of the problem and my brain just works that way as I see mangoes i want mangoes i do really hope this make another re-peak in the real industry that makes the wheel move, porn, but with more quality now hehe

 

[laselle]

jokes aside, im not usually happy with this kinda products, that are like half way being remasters - remakes...

they normally compit and made look the older version obselete which is not correct, i explain...

capcom when they started this massive wave of remakes remasters with the resident 2, they promoted it as a new brand experience, new gameplay, controls, expanded maps, backgrounds stories etc... its a completely new product with its own identity that departs from the same material as the originals, same characters, locations, narrative and few more things, but from there on its completely its own game...

my problem with this games like this one touhou, as well (dead space remake, super mario rpg remake, the new persona 4 revival, and so on...) its that they dont offer enough unique features to consider them their own game or experiences, and so the new version end up competing with the opriginal and in many cases becoming the default version to play,

i just want to tell you all, old doesnt mean obselete or unplayable, just as your phone has become the relog-alarm in most houses, this doesnt render physical alarm relogs obsolete or unsable, just not the default option... same analogy but now with are games, they are older games from the 90s or ealry 2000s yes they are from older gens, but not obsolete or unplayable, this is wrong...

 

[FluffyGensouDreamer]

jokes aside, im not usually happy with this kinda products, that are like half way being remasters - remakes...

they normally compit and made look the older version obselete which is not correct, i explain...

capcom when they started this massive wave of remakes remasters with the resident 2, they promoted it as a new brand experience, new gameplay, controls, expanded maps, backgrounds stories etc... its a completely new product with its own identity that departs from the same material as the originals, same characters, locations, narrative and few more things, but from there on its completely its own game...

my problem with this games like this one touhou, as well (dead space remake, super mario rpg remake, the new persona 4 revival, and so on...) its that they dont offer enough unique features to consider them their own game or experiences, and so the new version end up competing with the opriginal and in many cases becoming the default version to play,

i just want to tell you all, old doesnt mean obselete or unplayable, just as your phone has become the relog-alarm in most houses, this doesnt render physical alarm relogs obsolete or unsable, just not the default option... same analogy but now with are games, they are older games from the 90s or ealry 2000s yes they are from older gens, but not obsolete or unplayable, this is wrong...

Honestly, if your main worry is that the original will receive much less appreciation, the remake will also come with the original version to play, so as long the community (I refer mostly to veterans) reacts and treats newcomers nicely just for liking and supporting the series then everything should be fine.

Though yes, I see it a bit inevitable that the original version will be more "forgotten" but I feel that's actually a part of life as well and something that is natural to happen to an extent while we keep growing.

 

[SateriCat17]

Honestly, if your main worry is that the original will receive much less appreciation, the remake will also come with the original version to play, so as long the community (I refer mostly to veterans) reacts and treats newcomers nicely just for liking and supporting the series then everything should be fine.

Though yes, I see it a bit inevitable that the original version will be more "forgotten" but I feel that's actually a part of life as well and something that is natural to happen to an extent while we keep growing.

And considering how important EoSD itself is to Touhou, I'm not sure I'd be exactly "forgotten" even half a century from now. I mean, the (original) EoSD is absolutely everywhere in early Touhou fandom, and there'd probably still be many different people still wanting to dive back into the original EoSD later down the line.

 

[laselle]

Honestly, if your main worry is that the original will receive much less appreciation, the remake will also come with the original version to play, so as long the community (I refer mostly to veterans) reacts and treats newcomers nicely just for liking and supporting the series then everything should be fine.

Though yes, I see it a bit inevitable that the original version will be more "forgotten" but I feel that's actually a part of life as well and something that is natural to happen to an extent while we keep growing.

"if your main worry..."

no worries there man, we dont play the games that much sooo

"mostly veterans"

they are more busy discussing if the new meta is to play with joycons at 8fps

 

[Gxse]

jokes aside, im not usually happy with this kinda products, that are like half way being remasters - remakes...

they normally compit and made look the older version obselete which is not correct, i explain...

capcom when they started this massive wave of remakes remasters with the resident 2, they promoted it as a new brand experience, new gameplay, controls, expanded maps, backgrounds stories etc... its a completely new product with its own identity that departs from the same material as the originals, same characters, locations, narrative and few more things, but from there on its completely its own game...

my problem with this games like this one touhou, as well (dead space remake, super mario rpg remake, the new persona 4 revival, and so on...) its that they dont offer enough unique features to consider them their own game or experiences, and so the new version end up competing with the opriginal and in many cases becoming the default version to play,

i just want to tell you all, old doesnt mean obselete or unplayable, just as your phone has become the relog-alarm in most houses, this doesnt render physical alarm relogs obsolete or unsable, just not the default option... same analogy but now with are games, they are older games from the 90s or ealry 2000s yes they are from older gens, but not obsolete or unplayable, this is wrong...

I'm always confused why RE gets that label when they are actually different games. Meanwhile this remake is just a rebuild of the old game with new graphics and adding some stuff from the fanpatches. This is an actual carboncopy and some Cave tier stuff. The new sale price being 1990 yen is also hilarious when you can get physical copies of EOSD for less in resales shops. Like the other guy said earlier this seems like a sign of things to come and Zun might be somewhat checked out. If he really cared wouldn't he have totally reimagined it as a new mainline game or at least a spinoff instead? Anyway I'll prolly buy it just to confirm my fears and so that I can leave a negative review and in good faith recommend the newbies to actually play the good games.

 

[YuyuFumo]

I'm always confused why RE gets that label when they are actually different games. Meanwhile this remake is just a rebuild of the old game with new graphics and adding some stuff from the fanpatches. This is an actual carboncopy and some Cave tier stuff. The new sale price being 1990 yen is also hilarious when you can get physical copies of EOSD for less in resales shops. Like the other guy said earlier this seems like a sign of things to come and Zun might be somewhat checked out. If he really cared wouldn't he have totally reimagined it as a new mainline game or at least a spinoff instead? Anyway I'll prolly buy it just to confirm my fears and so that I can leave a negative review and in good faith recommend the newbies to actually play the good games.

It's a re-release of a 24 year old game that doesn't even work properly on native windows unless you've got a fan patch installed, so I do think that remaking the game is justified. I'm not asking that ZUN reinvent the wheel or do a ground-up re-imagining of literally the most vanilla game in the series, just that he includes quality of life improvements fan patches have been doing for years at this point and maybe a couple new modes/toggles to fuck around with. And if you're going to get a copy of the game to hate review, just waiting the 24-72 hours to get a crack like any self-respecting shrinegoer; Your review won't mean shit because Touhou fans will buy the game regardless and ZUN will have already have gotten your money.

 

[Gxse]

It's a re-release of a 24 year old game that doesn't even work properly on native windows unless you've got a fan patch installed, so I do think that remaking the game is justified. I'm not asking that ZUN reinvent the wheel or do a ground-up re-imagining of literally the most vanilla game in the series, just that he includes quality of life improvements fan patches have been doing for years at this point and maybe a couple new modes/toggles to fuck around with. And if you're going to get a copy of the game to hate review, just waiting the 24-72 hours to get a crack like any self-respecting shrinegoer; Your review won't mean shit because Touhou fans will buy the game regardless and ZUN will have already have gotten your money.

Well the gameplay being horribly bland is exactly my issue. If we can get modernized graphics and music then why can't we get modernized gameplay? This horribly outdated game shouldn't be the definitive entry point to the series. Something like MoF would be a much better entry point and if a review from me can cause a single larper to play MoF instead then I'll be happy.

 

[FluffyGensouDreamer]

And considering how important EoSD itself is to Touhou, I'm not sure I'd be exactly "forgotten" even half a century from now. I mean, the (original) EoSD is absolutely everywhere in early Touhou fandom, and there'd probably still be many different people still wanting to dive back into the original EoSD later down the line.

Exactly.

they are more busy discussing if the new meta is to play with joycons at 8fps

Worse of all? You're actually sort of right. I have found very little known YouTubers of Touhou who actually do challenges that sounds a bit similar like this lmao.

I'm always confused why RE gets that label when they are actually different games. Meanwhile this remake is just a rebuild of the old game with new graphics and adding some stuff from the fanpatches. This is an actual carboncopy and some Cave tier stuff. The new sale price being 1990 yen is also hilarious when you can get physical copies of EOSD for less in resales shops. Like the other guy said earlier this seems like a sign of things to come and Zun might be somewhat checked out. If he really cared wouldn't he have totally reimagined it as a new mainline game or at least a spinoff instead? Anyway I'll prolly buy it just to confirm my fears and so that I can leave a negative review and in good faith recommend the newbies to actually play the good games.

Man, I admire your optimism.

Well the gameplay being horribly bland is exactly my issue. If we can get modernized graphics and music then why can't we get modernized gameplay? This horribly outdated game shouldn't be the definitive entry point to the series. Something like MoF would be a much better entry point and if a review from me can cause a single larper to play MoF instead then I'll be happy.

Hmm, seeing your argument now, I can totally understand you more. If anything, you're a bit right. Games like MoF are undoubtedly far better and just like you say, it should be the kind of game that we as fans should recommend to newbies more usually instead.

But at the same time, I feel that things are what they actually are. And we can't change that. What does this means? That well, is already something set in stone by most of the fandom to recommend from the early works to the later ones to go in chronological order for a more lively experience for new fans. Even if the older entries are just more outdated and of "less quality".

So, with this fact in mind, we can't do much about it more about it than just accept it and, as such, support projects like these, for the better of the possible of outcomes.

 

[SateriCat17]

Hmm, seeing your argument now, I can totally understand you more. If anything, you're a bit right. Games like MoF are undoubtedly far better and just like you say, it should be the kind of game that we as fans should recommend to newbies more usually instead.

I still personally see IN as a very good game for beginners. For one thing, it has amazing music, story (well, at least I think so) and "cinematics", and the game's bullets are easier to dodge compared to most of the games. Plus, it introduces you to a lot of characters right off the bat and it has practice modes for you to be able to get better at the game easier (and it also teaches you about spell cards, which are of course central to Touhou gameplay). It also could be argued that it is great in teaching you the gravity of carelessly using continues.

 

[Ultra Instinct Kogasa]

New Koakuma sprite after 20+ years!! Yaaaay!!

 

[YuyuFumo]

Well the gameplay being horribly bland is exactly my issue. If we can get modernized graphics and music then why can't we get modernized gameplay? This horribly outdated game shouldn't be the definitive entry point to the series. Something like MoF would be a much better entry point and if a review from me can cause a single larper to play MoF instead then I'll be happy.

So the entry you'd recommend newbies play instead of the most vanilla one is...the second most vanilla one. MoF certainly has a lot more quality of life improvements, but I'm failing to see why EoSD is an 'incredibly bland' game when MoF's only real gameplay differences are the faith system, bombs costing power, and rank being moot.

 

[10MaddEM]

I think we should encourage new players to try a few different games EVEN if they choose to play UFO first… ofc warn them that it’s hard but the point is we should let them decide what to play first instead pf arguing over what the “Definitive game” is….

what i believe is that all the games are good. But because they vary there is no one game that summarizes touhou.

 

[erlking]

if a review from me can cause a single larper to play MoF instead then I'll be happy.

I'm not gonna lie to you, nobody giving a shit about that review then.

People who genuinely don't engage with the content they "larp", will not engage outside of posting tiktok edits and crap. If people larp anime and tv shows, both of which all you need to do is sit through, what makes you think they'd engage with a game like Touhou that requires a skill level to beat?

If someone wants to REALLY enter a series, they'll likely choose the most accessible entry point for them to experience what it is like. Especially in Japan where Touhou's popularity "actually matters" and they're highly opposed to piracy, newer fans will choose to buy the EOSD remake just because it's more accessible by being sold on PS5 and S2.

It's not about making a "definitive entry point" as much as it is making the most "accessible entry point" to beginners.

 

[laselle]

Exactly.

And considering how important EoSD itself is to Touhou, I'm not sure I'd be exactly "forgotten"

the thing is, the 2 products dont have sufficient differences to provide a 2 different experiences from the same source material... as i mentioned with the remake of resident 2. the 2 games the original from the 90s and the remake from 2017 they depart from the same source material (raccoon city, zombies, claire and cherryl already simping on leon ._.) , clearly they depart from the very basis, but build differently over it, in that way they both offer 2 different experiences of the same story,

but now it comes this games that are half way being a remake, remaster, rebuild, re-launching, whatsoever no community ever agrees of how to define these types of games (dead space remake, persona 4 revival...) or this one touhou, they do not differ enough from the original game to be consider a full and proper remake, so end up in a limbo of what the heck they are...

now the problem that rises with this is not to be "forgotten" but first, the way how we perceive the past games and second the 2 games being competitors...

considering the second point, (game being competitors) just as simple as you want to play EoSD and having the 2 versions will start to make you questioning which one to play, i can guaranty you, amoung people that really play the games, they will keep the original we dont have enough money to buy real games, so here we are playing for free, but we are roughly 2%~3% of the comunity, the rest 98% got jobs and lives, they buy fumos and can afford cosplaying, they will buy the game and show it in the forums... jokes aside, money is an important factor, why would you buy this game if theres the free version, because of the graphics?? ok fair, how about the fear of being out FOBO, "everyone" is playing it, will you be out??

and considering the first point, (how we perceive past games), just see the stupid monkey average brainroot dumb dumb sahur above fluffyGensou, that i dont even want to quote him to not waste pixels on the screen of the people...

this is from super mario rpg from the 90s and its remake not long ago



tell me, does she look bad, outdated or screams for a full make up whether your respond, its inevitable that our brains will make contrast because yes, the differences are straight, and once you do this you start to apply adjective to the 2 versions "modern" "old" "retro"... and once you do that it does affect how you play and how you perceive the games, just as the 2 girls in the classroom comparing to each other, they will inevitably affects each other perception of themselves, first girl: "she is blonde, tho i prefer my light brown", second girl: "mmm would love to have her brown hair and eyes, so lame :/"

hope you understand my point, the new game doesnt add or change enough from the original, they fight the same audience, cannibalism, if the new remake mostly change the visuals, then the only effect it does is that generate contrast against the original, and if the game will mostly generate this, then i will say the game is pointless or even a waste of time... but yeah i also say, most likely what im describing is something more personal cause i would really like every remake to be a real proper remake, to have more stories sourcing from the same material, like imaging this remake EoSD having different plot twists or new or expanded areas... but reality is what is and they are doing what they can i guess and i want MoF sanae in 4k please someone tell them

 

[Bonnie MKII]

 

[Buwako]

i never thought zun would be the type of person to remake his games, so learning that this was official was definitely a shocker. it looks cool and i think when it releases i might try it out. i do think it would have been cool to see the art in modern touhou style instead of just the higher quality eosd sprites, but the sprites are nice.

 

[SateriCat17]

i never thought zun would be the type of person to remake his games, so learning that this was official was definitely a shocker. it looks cool and i think when it releases i might try it out. i do think it would have been cool to see the art in modern touhou style instead of just the higher quality eosd sprites, but the sprites are nice.

I was definitely quite shocked to hear about ZUN remaking one of his games too. Never in a million years would I (or I guess really anyone for that matter) have thought he'd decide to do that.

 

[erlking]

i never thought zun would be the type of person to remake his games, so learning that this was official was definitely a shocker.

I was definitely quite shocked to hear about ZUN remaking one of his games too. Never in a million years would I (or I guess really anyone for that matter) have thought he'd decide to do that.

Same here, I didn't believe it for a while even after I saw the trailer pop up on my fyps constantly. My hope is that this is ZUN testing the water's for a possible remake of the PC-98 games, considering they're probably "the most deserving of getting a remake" due to how outdated they are and their weird canonicity.