What is thy honest and unfiltered opinion on Foul Detective Satori?

[fazun]

Please don't read if you're afraid of spoilers

This work by Zun is probably the most controversial of all time, and sure there are lots of people who don't like it. The whole point of it is... The Jailbreak King attacks every character since touhou 6 in the original chronological order, therefore you always know who comes next. And Satori, the foul detective, is here to save the day, right?
No. She can read minds and therefore should always be eliminated by the villain so she doesn't look like a Mary Sue (exactly what was happening before the Touhou 13 arc). I'd say, Zun made her an anti-Sue, literally everything bad that could happen does happen to poor Satori. Even that post by him saying that the manga being about Mizuchi and not Satori... Don't you find the whole thing disappointing?

Why did he come up with such an idea in the first place? Well, it's just a cameo parade. Well no, not really a cameo, many "forgotten" characters have an actual role. Not like they got any character development, but we saw Shou talking since UFO, that's cool indeed. I think it's supposed to attract people in the way like "oh hmmm there surely will be Seija in da next chapter and I like Seija, I'm intrigued". That would sound pretty cool if the main (not main anymore at all!!) character wasn't there just to get beaten up. Satori is a really hard character to use, she has a strong ability that makes everyone avoid her but she's also weak (even mentally) and therefore should be accompanied by someone. Maybe everyone who ever tried to imagine a story with her noticed the menacing danger of her becoming an ubermensch (well ubersatori) of sorts because you can't just knock her out every damn time, right? Right?

Now my honest opinions:
Satori would be a better character if she weren't that weak. Well ok, she may be physically weak but it's not that important for a youkai. Imagine Satori able to knock out the enemy with mental power. You may ask, "but you complained about her being close to a Mary Sue, what now?". But with this, she could engage in actual fights. It'd be interesting to see the difference of her attacks on humans, youkai, gods and others. And she wouldn't need a constant bodyguard Reimu is. It'd be a cooler Satori, at least. But Zun made her even weaker than one could expect after her main appearance in Touhou 11, she is now passing out because "too many thoughts".


















And OH GOD STOP TEASING THE MIMMERS ZUN!!! Mima's not coming back, everyone got it right.
I genuinely don't know what can save FDS. Any ideas?

 

[Idkism]

I just find it funny how the original detective plot was so ass they had to switch genres in between.
But honestly, I hate this lazy pandering where the only thing that grips the fan into reading this is their favorite character maybe making a cameo, so it's insulting to have the main girl essentially be a running gag of incompetence just so touhou fans can soy over that one character that haven't appeared since their game debut.
Maybe I don't know what the average touhou fan nowadays think, but surely there's more to it than just that right?

 

[fazun]

Maybe I don't know what the average touhou fan nowadays think, but surely there's more to it than just that right?

An average touhou "fan" doesn't even know about the existence of this manga.

Being serious, the absolute majority cares about one specific character. It's supposed to be an obscure and unique one (Sakuya hate is still relevant, yes), it may change with time, but mostly it's just one girl. And suddenly this obscure character has 1 or 2 minor appearances, wow, and these guys will die of happiness when their waifu gets another minor appearance. After that, the manga is forgotten forever. Therefore the thing Zun did kinda works, the only offended ones are the Satorists (and Mimmers)

 

[Idkism]

An average touhou "fan" doesn't even know about the existence of this manga.

Being serious, the absolute majority cares about one specific character. It's supposed to be an obscure and unique one (Sakuya hate is still relevant, yes), it may change with time, but mostly it's just one girl. And suddenly this obscure character has 1 or 2 minor appearances, wow, and these guys will die of happiness when their waifu gets another minor appearance. After that, the manga is forgotten forever. Therefore the thing Zun did kinda works, the only offended ones are the Satorists (and Mimmers)

Mimmers coping is funny because a PC98 mention will never happen, as in those 5 games might as well not exist to ZUN.

 

[Napechi97]

I aint reading allat cuz of the spoiler warning i noticed after reading some of that, idk what happens there but if a mind reader is a detective, then its the manga im most excited to read (i plan on reading it after i read previous Touhou mangas).

 

[Napechi97]

But honestly, I hate this lazy pandering where the only thing that grips the fan into reading this is their favorite character maybe making a cameo

People whose fav character only appears in pc98 have it worst as always...

 

[SateriCat17]

I pretty much just see Foul Detective Satori as being in a sort of limbo between canon and non-canon.
Stuff as the incident itself occuring, the lore behind the First Hakurei Shrine Maiden, and a couple of the other things I consider to be canon.
But, aside from the first (and maybe second) volume, I consider the events of the manga otherwise to just be non-canon. It just feels too "outlandish", even for Touhou, to really fit very well.
The idea of it being a detective story centered around Satori had a lot of potential, but unfortunately, ZUN blew it with its execution.

 

[fazun]

I pretty much just see Foul Detective Satori as being in a sort of limbo between canon and non-canon.
Stuff as the incident itself occuring, the lore behind the First Hakurei Shrine Maiden, and a couple of the other things I consider to be canon.
But, aside from the first (and maybe second) volume, I consider the events of the manga otherwise to just be non-canon. It just feels too "outlandish", even for Touhou, to really fit very well.
The idea of it being a detective story centered around Satori had a lot of potential, but unfortunately, ZUN blew it with its execution.

You can't just say it's not canon because you don't like it... I know it does suck but that still doesn't work like that. We can just ignore it though

 

[SateriCat17]

You can't just say it's not canon because you don't like it... I know it does suck but that still doesn't work like that. We can just ignore it though

Well, in many ways, I think ZUN gives others the freedom to interpret whether the stuff he makes are "canonical" or not. I mean, theoretically, someone could just disregard all of the established lore of Touhou and make something different from it.
Though for me, Foul Detective Satori is the only official Touhou work I consider "partially canon", because as I said, certain parts of it just don't make enough sense within it's own story and Touhou's continuity to really work right.
I'm no stranger myself of trying to "rectify" some of the plotholes and such within a work. But I most often only do it if I find it necessary (such as in the case of FDS).

 

[fazun]

Well, in many ways, I think ZUN gives others the freedom to interpret whether the stuff he makes are "canonical" or not. I mean, theoretically, someone could just disregard all of the established lore of Touhou and make something different from it.

Heresy. The thing you're talking about is fanon which is free in all ways. I don't say everyone should be forced to recite the manga, we just have to admit Zun did some shit with the story.

 

[SateriCat17]

Heresy. The thing you're talking about is fanon which is free in all ways. I don't say everyone should be forced to recite the manga, we just have to admit Zun did some shit with the story.

Well, I'm still not sure I'll really be able to change my views on it regardless.
I just don't consider FDS as completely canon to Touhou as it just doesn't work enough.
I think it's more of ZUN's own fault for messing it up badly enough despite his other manga having generally pretty good and thorough stories.

 

[SateriCat17]

Well, I'm still not sure I'll really be able to change my views on it regardless.
I just don't consider FDS as completely canon to Touhou as it just doesn't work enough.
I think it's more of ZUN's own fault for messing it up badly enough despite his other manga having generally pretty good and thorough stories.

It's main problems are that it has dragged on for too long and that it's sidetracking doesn't make much sense.
At least with the other Touhou stories, the sidetracking tends to make sense (if a bit confusing).
The manga as a whole should've just ended with Mizuchi's capture and her being either sent back into imprisonment or redeeming herself.
And it should've stayed mainly focused on Satori herself.

 

[fazun]

It's main problems are that it has dragged on for too long and that it's sidetracking doesn't make much sense.
At least with the other Touhou stories, the sidetracking tends to make sense (if a bit confusing).
The manga as a whole should've just ended with Mizuchi's capture and her being either sent back into imprisonment or redeeming herself.
And it should've stayed mainly focused on Satori herself.

Well, I guess Zun won't stop until ALL characters are involved in some way. You see, the story didn't affect the games at all for some reason, the problem isn't that big

 

[SateriCat17]

Well, I guess Zun won't stip until ALL characters are involved in some way. You see, the story didn't affect the games at all for some reason, the problem isn't that big

Yeah. That's another big problem with it. The other Touhou manga are like side stories taking place in between the games. This one seemed to just become a full-blown incident seemingly out of nowhere.
I will say that before the manga rebooted and the artstyle changed, the manga's story felt pretty good to me.
It was something like a "Sherlock Holmes" of Touhou.
It seemed like there was something bigger going on, but not really much like a massive incident.
The characters already acted much better before the reboot.
But, after the reboot and the artstyle change, everyone seemed to just start acting completely different from how they were before. The stakes suddenly became much higher, and the story became unnecessarily convoluted and overblown.
It felt like an actual detective story before, but now it had become, for lack of a better word, too "drunk".
I also have no idea why ZUN had decided that the manga MUST involve all of the characters.
He could've done that already, but just make it more subdued like how the story seemed to be going before.

 

[SateriCat17]

Yeah. That's another big problem with it. The other Touhou manga are like side stories taking place in between the games. This one seemed to just become a full-blown incident seemingly out of nowhere.
I will say that before the manga rebooted and the artstyle changed, the manga's story felt pretty good to me.
It was something like a "Sherlock Holmes" of Touhou.
It seemed like there was something bigger going on, but not really much like a massive incident.
The characters already acted much better before the reboot.
But, after the reboot and the artstyle change, everyone seemed to just start acting completely different from how they were before. The stakes suddenly became much higher, and the story became unnecessarily convoluted and overblown.
It felt like an actual detective story before, but now it had become, for lack of a better word, too "drunk".
I also have no idea why ZUN had decided that the manga MUST involve all of the characters.
He could've done that already, but just make it more subdued like how the story seemed to be going before.

Maybe Idkism considers FDS's concept to have basically been a shitshow from the beginning, but I think that had it kept going the direction it seemed to be going before, it probably would've ended up as among my favorite official Touhou manga.
It's story had a lot of potential to me, and using Satori in a detective role suited the story pretty well.

 

[fazun]

I also have no idea why ZUN had decided that the manga MUST involve all of the characters.

Well, that was the idea from the very beginning. Why would he make a character that attacks everyone in a chronological order then?

He could've done that already, but just make it more subdued like how the story seemed to be going before.

Well, I don't think Zun had no plan. The sudden change from basic "Mizu attacked, must investigate" to "there's Mizu 2 eletric boogaloo somewhere and Flan is a mercenary again" was intended. You know, all touhou mangas even chill ones had a moment when everything suddenly turned into a boss fight. Knowing that Touhou 15 is next, I guess he got big plans...

 

[SateriCat17]

Well, I don't think Zun had no plan. The sudden change from basic "Mizu attacked, must investigate" to "there's Mizu 2 eletric boogaloo somewhere and Flan is a mercenary again" was intended. You know, all touhou mangas even chill ones had a moment when everything suddenly turned into a boss fight. Knowing that Touhou 15 is next, I guess he got big plans...

Well, as I said, all of that could've been worked well into it. The main problem is that he basically did a 360 in how it was all approached.

 

[fazun]

Maybe Idkism considers FDS's concept to have basically been a shitshow from the beginning, but I think that had it kept going the direction it seemed to be going before, it probably would've ended up as among my favorite official Touhou manga.
It's story had a lot of potential to me, and using Satori in a detective role suited the story pretty well.

I think Satori could be a better detective with a different perception. An independent investigator that everyone fears, but she doesn't need nobody anyway. She may even meet resistance from the most powerful youkai that don't want her to become a key figure...




Ohhh what am I dreaming about, a buddy cop comedy featuring Nazrin and Shou would be way cooler. I want Zun to remove that shit and start "Foul Detective Nazrin"

 

[SateriCat17]

I think Satori could be a better detective with a different perception. An independent investigator that everyone fears, but she doesn't need nobody anyway. She may even meet resistance from the most powerful youkai that don't want her to become a key figure...

And that it how the story originally seemed to going anyway.
It would've been far cooler and make much more sense if it ended in a showdown between Satori (along with Orin and Reimu, alongside possibly Utsuho and Koishi) and Mizuchi.

 

[SateriCat17]

Ohhh what am I dreaming about, a buddy cop comedy featuring Nazrin and Shou would be way cooler. I want Zun to remove that shit and start "Foul Detective Nazrin"

Keep dreaming buddy. Though that would be a pretty funny idea.