Ok, we need to talk about this

[Tenkko]

I hold that MS always was and still is the piracy site, denying that isn't doing any good. Doesn't really matter that it has a forum where that isn't discussed, which isn't even true anymore because this thread is dedicated to discussing it. I feel I mentioned this in some other thread but whenever I heard of this place elsewhere it was often spoken of in hush tones, "the moriya site", "google touhou download, first result".

I still feel the general approach to piracy is way off target and very uhh, "first world-centric" if we wanna use big words, that's always been my big issue with it. I remember seeing a video of some guy flaunting their physical copies of the games, c'mon. But again I think most people don't have a problem with it, it's just generally seen as a dick move to publicly advocate for piracy of indie stuff so no one's gonna go out and say it, or even allow it in some places like reddit. That goes doubly for fan content which obviously gets much less revenue. There have been efforts to bridge the gap a little bit with translators working together with circles but, it's still a very, very long way from making everything truly accessible, and chances are it never will (not to mention they only do english translations. and only of the works they or their community are interested in).

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment I described above by the way, piracy has always been that ugly thing no one wants to talk about. Even for me, if someone asks me where to get the Touhou games I'll first tell them to buy them if they can. That's not really the problem, I understand that look and wanting to keep things clean, which is probably why this site may have that negative image. Now pushing so hard against it when you've probably gone and read fan translations of doujins so many times, because yes that also counts? Yeah that's shitty.

 

[Nekoko]

@CountVonNumenor Oops… I thought NSFW is a term to designate sexualised stuff like this (it’s on Reddit and I guess you’ve already seen it), for you it’s a normal artwork but for me it’s kinda disturbing… View attachment 3041

anyway this is just my point of view for this part

So for the banner, I haven’t noticed Sanae’s boobs and I haven’t said anything on Cirno’s skin color this is just their face, they both looks idiotic

Don’t mind this comment and what I’ve said it’s 100% my point of view and I wasn’t speaking seriously about that subject anyway

 

[CountVonNumenor]

@CountVonNumenor Oops… I thought NSFW is a term to designate sexualised stuff like this (it’s on Reddit and I guess you’ve already seen it), for you it’s a normal artwork but for me it’s kinda disturbing… View attachment 3041

anyway this is just my point of view for this part

So for the banner, I haven’t noticed Sanae’s boobs and I haven’t said anything on Cirno’s skin color this is just their face, they both looks idiotic

Don’t mind this comment and what I’ve said it’s 100% my point of view and I wasn’t speaking seriously about that subject anyway

Is it wrong that have become completely desensitised by images of this kind? After a whole year of checking Danbooru daily for Touhou art, as well as being on some Discord servers, I have grown to get no reaction from something like that. Actually, the example you have shown is very much nothing in comparison to what I ended up seeing on a daily basis both an Danbooru and some of the Discord groups I am in (on their - ironically still safe for work - "waifu-posting" channels. Am I lost? 

Also I am sorry if I appeared to be aggressive in the previous comment. To me, it is just the thing that I have seen WORSE almost on a daily basis compared to that Joon image. And I don't know what's more disturbing - the fact it exists, or that there are people who actually love this kind of thing (I know a lot of people on Discord who seem to be into to boys and buff girls, and want to present it as if all guys are into that). 

(side note: AspreyFN would simp so hard seeing that Joon image, given how much he likes her) 

Going back to Danbooru, an image like the one above would at most be counted as "Sensitive" (the rating system on that website works the following way - "General", "Sensitive", "Questionable" and "Explicit"). Only the ones rated at "Questionable" and "Explicit are usually considered to be the NSFW ones, since at least in my books, it's not safe of work if we talk about straight-on nudity or explicitly sexual/intercourse content. In another thread, I have discussed about the rating system in full detail, and I might just put it here as well just for some better context. 

*by "waifu-posting" Discord channel, you can understand a channel where people post a lot of images they tend to find cute or hot (sometimes both), many times extremely sexualized images dur to the fact they are either gacha game art (and fanart - there seems to be a constant obsession for Prinz Eugen from Azur Lane), or whatever else; in fact, a lot of the art there might go into the "how is this safe for work?!", it somehow it is considered as such even in the source material (game, series, etc. If only I could make a collage of a regular day of posting on that channel to give a better idea... 

 

[Nekoko]

Also I am sorry if I appeared to be aggressive in the previous comment. To me, it is just the thing that I have seen WORSE almost on a daily basis compared to that Joon image. And I don't know what's more disturbing - the fact it exists, or that there are people who actually love this kind of thing (I know a lot of people on Discord who seem to be into to boys and buff girls, and want to present it as if all guys are into that). 

Do you really think it’s an excuse to talk to me the way you do just because we have a different experience with fan content ? I’ve never went on this kind of website or Discord server to find fanarts so it’s kinda one of the first one that I’ve seen and it’s my problem if I find it disturbing, for some people it’s not, for some others it’s sexy but for me it’s gross. 
It’s my point of view, deal with it, we are different and, as a girl, I find it insulting how over sexualised are girls in manga/anime.

Now to go back on the main subject, I’ve found a video about what happened on Moriya Shrine, and it looks like they are really thinking that it’s a piracy website

 

[sodaodaoda]

Do you really think it’s an excuse to talk to me the way you do just because we have a different experience with fan content ? I’ve never went on this kind of website or Discord server to find fanarts so it’s kinda one of the first one that I’ve seen and it’s my problem if I find it disturbing, for some people it’s not, for some others it’s sexy but for me it’s gross. 
It’s my point of view, deal with it, we are different and, as a girl, I find it insulting how over sexualised are girls in manga/anime.

I'm sure Count didn't mean to insult you or anything. I understand why you would see that Jo'on pic as NSFW, I do see images like that NSFW as well, regardless of whether or not they actually contain explicit things, if you know what I mean. And considering I'm a girl as well, it really sometimes rubs me the wrong way that girls are seen the way they are seen.

Now to go back on the main subject, I’ve found a video about what happened on Moriya Shrine, and it looks like they are really thinking that it’s a piracy website

Those 2 videos are interesting, and I am on the both sides.
For 1, I do understand piracy for Touhou games, especially the PC-98 ones, and 6,7,8.  But I also understand why people are mad at pirates.
An interesting thing I noticed is that people are complaining that Steam versions can't be patched.
They actually can, idk why people think they can't? THCRAP works perfectly fine on my 18.5 Steam copy.

I'll cook up a more lenghty response to this piracy thing later.

 

[Isaac]

Do you really think it’s an excuse to talk to me the way you do just because we have a different experience with fan content ? I’ve never went on this kind of website or Discord server to find fanarts so it’s kinda one of the first one that I’ve seen and it’s my problem if I find it disturbing, for some people it’s not, for some others it’s sexy but for me it’s gross. 
It’s my point of view, deal with it, we are different and, as a girl, I find it insulting how over sexualised are girls in manga/anime.

Just caught up on this thread now. There's a lot I agree with you Nekofire. I'm also not a fan of seeing these characters sexualised and I try to avoid that content as much as I can. However, I don't think Count wanted to say anything negative against you.  It sounds like he was just comparing his experiences with fanart, like being desensitized to nsfw stuff on certain sites. It's nice that you're talking more in this thread though!

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Now to go back on the main subject, I’ve found a video about what happened on Moriya Shrine, and it looks like they are really thinking that it’s a piracy website

Oh, I have seen these two videos back in spring. As far as I am aware, there was vey little cover in the Touhou community about what happened here. Almost as it it was kept a secret whenever people did not just celebrate or use us a cautionary tale in the big communities. About the Windows games, the complaint in regards to piracy may be more reasonable. However, in the case of PC-98, that is where it becomes tricky. Given that they are close to impossible to obtain nowadays, and you need a different, discontinued computer to operate them.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

[No message]

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Oh, sorry, I have accidentally posted the same comment twice. This is quite weird, as replies used to upload instantly and not have to click on the "post" button several times without seeing anything happen. Anyway, I will have to think of something else to write here. Until then, just ignore this reply.

 

[nitorii]

man I sure love not existing near reddit because I had no idea moriya shrine had this terrible of a reputation in the touhou community
can't lie, I got here because I was looking for some fun games to play, but I did stay because y'all seemed really chill. unfortunately it seems people take this place as purely piracy driven and nothing else, similar to thepiratebay and etc. I believe the general hatred is just people who've been in the community for long spreading the word that MS is this "dark, horrible and scaaaaaaary place you should never step into" to newer people, who then do the same after some time, going in an endless cycle
and it seems zun is also into some tomfuckery of his own, hmm? interesting.
all in all, from a quick read, I learned touhou fans are more toxic than I believed to (I knew they were, but I genuinely had a good experience overall in the community in those 3 years or so)

 

[CountVonNumenor]

all in all, from a quick read, I learned Touhou fans are more toxic than I believed to (I knew they were, but I genuinely had a good experience overall in the community in those 3 years or so)

To be honest, for most of my experience of two years (as of yet) being part of this community, pretty much 95% of the time I did not have any real problems or encountered toxicity among fans. Things seems to have changed quite a bit for about half a year now though, as I am slowly starting to see more and more hidden, nastier sides of our fandom at large (at least as much as I can reach in the English side of the world; if I were to take the Japanese fandom itself, from which we are quite a separate entity it seems, that one would a whole different rabbit hole to jump in, filled with tons of things we most likely are not familiar with or not prepared for...)

 

[nitorii]

everyone I stumbled upon that happened to know touhou was genuinely really nice to me, so my experience in the fandom is pretty much the same as yours. unfortunately, nothing escapes the inevitable fate of "this one group in the community will hunt you down because you like X thing or did Y thing"
really wish world peace was real

 

[Gri]

everyone I stumbled upon that happened to know touhou was genuinely really nice to me, so my experience in the fandom is pretty much the same as yours. unfortunately, nothing escapes the inevitable fate of "this one group in the community will hunt you down because you like X thing or did Y thing"
really wish world peace was real

This is something I have seen in many places: "veteran" fans looking down on others "novice" fans for not knowing as much as them, gatekeeping them rather than welcoming them to the community and encouraging them to see other stuff other than the "mainstream" stuff that only "noob" would like. To me, we all started somewhere, and that kind of behavior is just childish (can't people enjoy more than 1 thing in life? why must there always be a "winner" that's better than a "loser"? can't we all just relax ?). Unfortunately, we can't do much about those people, other than not doing the same thing as them. Sharing more obscure content to new fans is the way to go to prevent this "elitist" culture from settling into this forum.

So far, I think this place is rather decent. , even I don't write much though (I don't like writing big posts, and answering a big analysis post with just "I agree with X" isn't that pertinent ), from the post I have seen, I only saw "tension" once or twice. Don't get too down when conflicts happens. As they say "tomorrow is another day"

 

[CountVonNumenor]

This is something I have seen in many places: "veteran" fans looking down on others "novice" fans for not knowing as much as them, gatekeeping them rather than welcoming them to the community and encouraging them to see other stuff other than the "mainstream" stuff that only "noob" would like.

Oh boy, you are reminding me of the concept I have seen thrown around, and mentioned at least on the wiki of "newbie bait". The term refers to a set of very specific characters (Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Alice, Youmu, Reisen, Aya and possible a few more), even if I think it might also coincide with the fact these are "basic" characters, as in "the person that likes them is basic". I guess some just want to feel entitled, or just maintain their "greater than thou" feeling. Or just feel special...

 

[CountVonNumenor]

To close off this post, I have a video to share. Touhou would absolutely not be what it is today without piracy, and I think this video shares a good message about how supporting your favourite creator has more meanings than simply filling their coffers.


  Reveal hidden contents

Slight tangent from the Touhou theme of the thread. This reminds me a lot about my childhood. For a long time, I grew up with pirated version of Rome 1, Medieval 2 and other games of the Total War series. At the time, I did not have money to buy them, and digital copies were expensive even with the advent of Steam. However, after many years of playing  and enjoying them as such, when I finally got some money, I ended up buying both games. So in the end, I guess the thesis that both you and Isaac came up with is actually true.

And in order to bring it back to Touhou, I would say there is one more thing. I for sure was not expecting that after playing (and, to be fair, not finishing) two mainline Touhou games (PCB and PoFV), I would end up buying the entire FS manga series. Hope it balances out...?

 

[Gri]

And in order to bring it back to Touhou, I would say there is one more thing. I for sure was not expecting that after playing (and, to be fair, not finishing) two mainline Touhou games (PCB and PoFV), I would end up buying the entire FS manga series. Hope it balances out...?

That's up to you. How much do you think you should have paid for PCB and PoFV?

Keep in mind some of these game had free demo before being released, so if you only played a little on the full (but pirated) version, then I think it easily count as a "demo".

I did the same thing. I didn't know if I would like Shump games, so I downloaded EoSD as a "demo" and gave it a shoot (and I though these games all were inaccessible outside of Japan anyway). A year and a half later, I played all games and I almost bought every official Touhou games on steam (even those I didn't really like to compensate for the PC-98 era).

As long as you aren't abusing the "privileges" this site grants you, it's fine.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

That's up to you. How much do you think you should have paid for PCB and PoFV?

Keep in mind some of these game had free demo before being released, so if you only played a little on the full (but pirated) version, then I think it easily count as a "demo".

I did the same thing. I didn't know if I would like Shump games, so I downloaded EoSD as a "demo" and gave it a shoot (and I though these games all were inaccessible outside of Japan anyway). A year and a half later, I played all games and I almost bought every official Touhou games on steam (even those I didn't really like to compensate for the PC-98 era).

Everything I have said was more in the idea that trying out some of the pirated content from here actually made curious for buying official stuff, so now I can say that I hold legally a piece of official Touhou media. It is just how much the "trial" for PCB made me like the series, despite never having finished the game itself. 

 

[spagnips]

Stop paying attention to what the larger touhou community says, just a bunch of self-righteous tourists, this goes for any large community really, just do what you're gonna do and stop caring what a bunch of snobs think. Also, stop caring about how "sexualized" a drawing is, it's not real and it's not meant to be a mirror of reality either.