How to draw?

[CountVonNumenor]

Sounds a little stupid, especially as it seems I might have a little idea on how to do it. However, the thing I am not very sure about is the manner/style for it. It is not really a problem for me with the vehicles, where it seems like I have an idea what I want to do. but when it comes to humans/characters, that's where it becomes complicated. With so much reference in the kind of "how to [...]", one can easily get confused and no longer be sure what to pick from. It is awesome to have so many alternatives, but at the same time, where do you start from? Do you reference drawn tutorials, or go directly for images of the real materials. Here are the two options I am caught in between:


1) Draw in an already established manner

Seems like an easy option. However, after a while you start feeling "wait, why did I pick this style to begin with?". For a little bit of context. Back in 2020, I decided to take drawing more seriously and actually try to improve. I had quite a lot to work on, especially since I was never before bothered how my humans will look like. 

Drawing like this at the age of 18 really makes you question yourself why you have been so uncaring until that point

As I started to look into guides for where to start for, I have become increasingly confused, as all the guides and reference material gathered where done by different people, in different manners, and nothing seemed to fit. After a few basic drawings of a human shape, I decided to actually draw something. And the result was this thing below. My first bit of fanart ever drawn, representing season 1 Tari from Meta Runner.

 

Finally something more human, as of August 2020. Even if she looks flat like a wooden plank, at least it looked human. Still not certain what style I should go for, a friend of mine who was also exercising drawing at the time gave this a look, and came with the following conclusion: "this has very strong anime/manga vibe; maybe you should go with that style". And so, from that moment on and until today, the predominant way of drawing for me has been manga. Since this came not too long before getting into Touhou, I think it boosted my journey down the rabbit hole. 

Weirdly enough, going with anime drawing and watching a lot of example on a daily basis for almost 2 years (Touhou was a giant boost, with close to 20K images seen in just over a year), I developed the following problem: I can no longer properly perceive the shapes of a real human being. Not really in the weeb way, but there were some details I forgot how they actually work. Real shapes of body parts, some mechanics, things that do not really align with the tropes and are basically close to impossible to translate in other styles an so on. Even yesterday I was talking to someone about Michelangelo and his works while laughing a bit about why his women look like "men with boobs", and I literally forgot basic concepts of anatomy - yes, boobs can be small; they contain a lot of fat, and if the woman is jacked, that fat is burnt. And I think there are more examples of "how my perception of reality has been greatly warped", but that would just make me look like I forgot what a real woman looks like. Maybe I should just use more images of real people for reference when drawing. Anyway, back to the art part. 

And speaking of Michelangelo (gonna put this in spoiler, even if it is a work of art, just for the sake of safety online - people really are censoring even paintings and statues nowadays)

Spoiler

Nowadays, I am in a point of wondering if I actually want to draw like this, or I just like it for how it looks. My answer on that is not clear, and this marks the beginning of next section.



2) Try drawing something my own way

Probably the more difficult of the options, but also the more interesting one. Someone once told me that drawing is more than just combining styles from others, as that would only end up in some sort of "Frankenstein" work. In the past months, I have been thinking more and more about creating something unique. Something of my own, to make me feel like I achieved something. However, every time I tried so, I did a drawing or two at most, then reverted to the old ways. It does not help that I am not drawing very often (way less than I'd like to), and it takes me forever to actually convince myself to start a new project. Besides, most of time I never end up too satisfied with what I do, especially due to the fact I am setting myself too high bars and unrealistic objectives. Which only has negative effects on you, especially when you end up comparing your work with that of people with greater experience instead of comparing it with your previous work (I am literally too blinded to see my own progress)

(various attempts at drawing something more different)

Usually, I tried testing new thing first on a special character I have created back in 2020, a college girl called Catherine (Cathy). However, just like I was saying early, I am plagued by the wrong idea of never being satisfied with my own things because they are not "good enough". By now, I am not even sure if I should stick with anime more, even of it modelled (possibly) forever the way I draw and perceive artworks, or be more brave and try again something new until I can be more satisfied with it. 

And even when I draw something that I want to be different from the manga trope style, somehow it ends up getting back there. Earlier, I was talking about how confusing it can be to find a reference in the "how to draw" kind of search since everyone is different, and that maybe I should opt for photos of real people. Problem is that I am still very prude, even at the age of 20. My post about naughty fanservice seem to show otherwise, but I still paradoxically feel shame for looking at a photo of a naked woman, even if it serves just for reference on human anatomy and how to get my shapes right. Which is quite a bit of a bummer, especially if you want to just draw a little better. All I want currently is to feel proud of my work, or at the very least be satisfied it looks better than last time. 


3) Final thoughts

Past two years have been very messy. I am still trying to figure out what I am doing, and the chart I will post below shows it very well. Too often have I switched from one thing to another, and not enough drawing due to aforementioned problems did not help. This is what I have been doing for the past two years. If my drawing chart was working like the "political compass", it would have been all over the place. Not that this one is not all over the place anyway. But I think it makes sense for it being so messy in just two years, with everything being self-taught and myself being a little messy. Anyway, I really should figure out in what direct I want to move next, and finally decide what to do.

(never managed to put them all together, but it goes March 2020-April 2022)

 

[sodaodaoda]

The answer I usually give to this question is: draw as much as you can.
I've been drawing digitally since 2017, and since then, I've improved a lot. The biggest tip I can give to you is learn anatomy, and while drawing, look at some references of humans (I don't really recommend looking at drawn references, mainly because if you're gonna copy that artist's drawing, you'd copy their mistakes.).
I have a whole MEGA folder with art references, tutorials, and more, so I can give you that if you want.
Another good tip is to practice the fundementals on paper first, I didn't do that and now traditional art is harder for me than digital
Also, I'm guessing you're using a mouse (because of the lines), I advise you to buy a drawing pad, they're much better to use, but they're not mandatory for good art. But, if you want to get one, I recommend a One by Wacom S, they're cheap.

Speaking of improvement, lemme show you how my art looked like, and what I did to improve. I'll be using my Cirno day art as a reference, since I draw those drawing on a (almost) yearly basis.

2017:

This was my first ever complete Touhou drawing, and I drew this at the time when I was just getting into digital art. This was before I had any knowledge of anatomy, and I just looked at anime drawings for reference.

2019:

View attachment 2481practiced anatomy a bit. (idk why the text is underlined oops)

2021:

And finally, my 2021 drawing. I've already got the hang of coloring and anatomy. It isn't perfect by any means, but it's certainly much better than before.

Overall, I can see that you've improved quite a lot in these 2 years, and that is an amazing thing. I'm sure that you can work your way to the top to become a really great artist, just don't give up!
(also, I love the Okuu and the Kogasa, they're so cute!!)

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Quite a few good points. However, I feel like I need to clarify a few things, mostly related to me not mentioning them from the very beginning. 

 

The answer I usually give to this question is: draw as much as you can.

I would, if only I did not always feel tired and without any will to do anything (a general problem for me). It's extremely hard to start me do something, but once I manage to start (kind of a 50-50 chance), I stick to that thing. 
 

while drawing, look at some references of humans (I don't really recommend looking at drawn references, mainly because if you're gonna copy that artist's drawing, you'd copy their mistakes.).

That is why I say it is also very confusing. I made this file long ago with reference material, but I do not know how to use it. Also, I've seen more and more the idea of "how do you know it is wrong and not just artistic liberty?" or "what does wrong mean?". For me, the real question is where does it end being artistic liberty, and where does it become mistake. Besides, I said that I have a very strong feel of shy for working with real human models. Plus, I am not so sure how much I am willing to actually study anatomy, even if it seems like a useful idea. I have not studied engineering or anything  for the tanks, and I seem to be rather satisfied with how they look like. At most, I am looking at illustrations and photos of said vehicles though for reference. 
 

I have a whole MEGA folder with art references, tutorials, and more, so I can give you that if you want.

Sounds like an interesting idea. However, I do not really know how to work with MEGA files, and last time I tried, I did not really understand what was going on. 
 

Another good tip is to practice the fundamentals on paper first, I didn't do that and now traditional art is harder for me than digital

Thing is, for the most of my life, I have been drawing on paper. I started traditional drawing while in kindergarten, and my drawing at the time looked like something a 5 year old would do. However, I never felt bothered or unsatisfied with what I was doing. While in school, I always had one of those small notebooks with blanc pages where you could draw whatever you wanted. And so I was filling these notebooks with drawings that still looked like kindergarten level, about which I still did not care. The real change happened in 2020. That is when I actually started drawing digitally. 

 

Also, I'm guessing you're using a mouse (because of the lines), I advise you to buy a drawing pad, they're much better to use, but they're not mandatory for good art. But, if you want to get one, I recommend a One by Wacom S, they're cheap.

I do have a drawing tablet. It is a Wacom OneSmall I bought in December 2020. Until that point, I was drawing everything on paper, scanning (though to be honest, I was just taking photos of it) the drawing, and then tracing it on computer with the mouse and straight lines tool. And for a long time, even after I got the tablet, due to the fact my lines looked like chicken scribble, I continued using the mouse, with the tablet itself doing the sketch of the drawing and perhaps some details. I have am trying to change things a bit nowadays though.

This is the first thing I have drawn with the tablet:

 

Speaking of improvement, lemme show you how my art looked like, and what I did to improve. I'll be using my Cirno day art as a reference, since I draw those drawing on a (almost) yearly basis.

Also, nice Cirno art! There really is a visible improvement. I think we might be deviating the talk a little bit from the original purpose - own style vs adopting an established style (anime/manga), but I can see some use in the conversation until now. Anyway, even now after 2 years, I still feel from time to time like I am getting back to square 1 and need to rethink my strategy. 

 

[Gou the frog]

Finding your art style? Don't worry about it too much. It'll come naturally. If you want to improve, I'll say master the basics first: Anatomy, Colors Theory, Shading all that good stuff. Don't just draw. For example, if you want to be good at perspective and tanks, you'll have to practice it. After you've acquired the wisdom, put it to practice with some balance. Using references could certainly help.

Don't get discouraged by your art. Looking back the times where you were having fun drawing but having no clue what to do and comparing it to the current work, to see how much you have improved. Better yet, comparing with others whom has more experience than you and setting a goal that "I want to become better just like them while enjoying my own process." 

Like this Meiling I drew at 2021, at that time I've no idea what I was doing but I most deficiently enjoyed it.

View attachment 2485

Drawing is like any other skill. It's hard but fulfilling to do. Yeah, people like to do what they enjoy. I'll compared it to cooking, say you want to make a specialty dish like Chef Gordan with your own signature. That's unlikely for one with no interest in cooking nor find enjoyment in it. If it speaks to your heart, you'll find yourself investing in it. Before one can cook, he must learn how to handle kitchenware and etc, etc.

The point is your dish might sometime come out salty, too sweet or sour. It reflects to the artist himself. Even your work comes out terrible, one might still find enjoyment in it. After all, most of us likes drawing since we found enjoyment in it.

At the end of the the day, drawing is simply a part of our lives. You don't have to keep focusing on the one thing over your journey and one last thing: have fun drawing brother. :>

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Normally, I am drawing just to fill my time with an activity, and not for it as a profession. Which means I am taking it rather casually, which did lead in the past to stagnance, and why for many years I have been doing basically the same (wrong) thing. I am using reference way too rarely, and when I do, I don't really go for what I could find more useful. Plus, I would like to make sure my drawing does not look like a mere imitation of someone else's art. Every time I watch Touhou art of just "generic waifu" anime art, I feel like everything looks the same, with perhaps 1-2 patterns. It all feels like being put through a printing press, everyone doing things almost the same. And instead of getting frustrated at no being able to reproduce a pattern, perhaps I could try something new - basically one of the sources of where I am thinking what and how should I do it.
 

Better yet, comparing with others whom has more experience than you and setting a goal that "I want to become better just like them while enjoying my own process." 

I've been doing this, but it only lead to frustration and the feeling I can't reach the same level of performance. For me, simple ambition to improve turns into unhealthy obsession and a lot of jealousy of the "why doesn't mine look like that?!" kind. Plus, I am not even sure what art do I like just because I like looking at it, and what I like and would want to emulate in my own work. 

Many good artists have lots of years of experience, tests, successes and failures, but when watching their accounts and at galleries, it feels like they only had successes, as you cannot see their beginning works, to give you a feeling of "even they started from somewhere". While in other cases, their art has always looked perfect, even from the start. 

Like this Meiling I drew at 2021, at that time I've no idea what I was doing but I most deficiently enjoyed it.

Your "clueless drawing" Meiling literally looks better than something I was trying to do after I started looking into guides. 
But still from the clueless period, there comes this:

(to understand how I was drawing back in the old days of pen and paper -  this is very much how I have been drawing for more than a decade)

Early work from 2020, before getting into the idea of "I should try put some more effort into drawing"

And this one at the end, my first digital drawing ever. Done somewhere in 2010 in MS Paint

 

[Gou the frog]

Normally, I am drawing just to fill my time with an activity, and not for it as a profession. Which means I am taking it rather casually, which did lead in the past to stagnance, and why for many years I have been doing basically the same (wrong) thing. I am using reference way too rarely, and when I do, I don't really go for what I could find more useful. 

Aye, me too mate. I've been doing this for a while now. I've also been repeating the same mistake that "I must impress someone with my work" but I moved out of that when at the end of 2021. About references, it's pretty hard to find the one you actually need.

I've been doing this, but it only lead to frustration and the feeling I can't reach the same level of performance. For me, simple ambition to improve turns into unhealthy obsession and a lot of jealousy of the "why doesn't mine look like that?!" kind. Plus, I am not even sure what art do I like just because I like looking at it, and what I like and would want to emulate in my own work.

It does happen. Many time to me now but I stop caring it and found enjoyment in my work.

Your "clueless drawing" Meiling literally looks better than something I was trying to do after I started looking into guides. 

I'm really sorry if I ended up sounding like a jerk that asserting dominance over you mate. I truly was clueless back then. But I can proudly say that you're drawing from the same time period as mine is truly better in colors.

Like this Reisen that I ruined with bad coloring of mine. 

View attachment 2495

Your drawing are much more free and creative than mine in every way. My first digital one is right in this year.

Yours from 2020 is definitely better than mine in 2022.

View attachment 2496

 

[sodaodaoda]

The answer I usually give to this question is: draw as much as you can.

I would, if only I did not always feel tired and without any will to do anything (a general problem for me). It's extremely hard to start me do something, but once I manage to start (kind of a 50-50 chance), I stick to that thing. 

Oh man, I feel you with this
I usually just try to force myself to do something, it works (most of the time, at least).
 

Also, I've seen more and more the idea of "how do you know it is wrong and not just artistic liberty?" or "what does wrong mean?". For me, the real question is where does it end being artistic liberty, and where does it become mistake.

By mistakes, I meant like, perspective mistakes and anatomy mistakes, and I mean that for people who actually draw those reference drawings. Of course, there are artists who do like to warp those stuff around just for an artistic effect, but if someone's gonna draw something for it to be used as a reference for drawing, then it should be correct in regards to that.
 

Besides, I said that I have a very strong feel of shy for working with real human models.

Hoooooo, I feel you with this too! Lol
Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it can be a bit awkward to look at photos of human models (especially if they're naked!), but you get used to it lol
 

Plus, I am not so sure how much I am willing to actually study anatomy, even if it seems like a useful idea. I have not studied engineering or anything  for the tanks, and I seem to be rather satisfied with how they look like. At most, I am looking at illustrations and photos of said vehicles though for reference.

If you want to draw humans, it's definitely recommended to study it. You should also study tanks, so that you become even better at drawing at them.

Sounds like an interesting idea. However, I do not really know how to work with MEGA files, and last time I tried, I did not really understand what was going on.

MEGA is just like a file explorer with folders and stuffs, it's not very complicated.
Speaking of which, here's the archive if you or other artist friends are intersted in this (Warning, it can be a bit NSFW): https://mega.nz/folder/BXJkjSKI#ef2mMsm1mkj2nf3amonPEA
 

I do have a drawing tablet. It is a Wacom OneSmall I bought in December 2020. Until that point, I was drawing everything on paper, scanning (though to be honest, I was just taking photos of it) the drawing, and then tracing it on computer with the mouse and straight lines tool. And for a long time, even after I got the tablet, due to the fact my lines looked like chicken scribble, I continued using the mouse, with the tablet itself doing the sketch of the drawing and perhaps some details. I have am trying to change things a bit nowadays though.

Ooh, that's very good. Also, you can make the "chicken scribbles" look really good too! And if you want to practice having better lines, here's this very good tutorial that I watched a few years ago:




Like Gou said, don't worry about it too much. It will come naturally. Learn the basics and you can also like, mesh several styles you like together. That's at least how I did it. But just take your time, don't rush!

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I've also been repeating the same mistake that "I must impress someone with my work" but I moved out of that when at the end of 2021.

Still very much stuck in that mindset. Once I discovered #art channels on the various Discord servers I was/am part of, I actually started to grow jealous of how god others could draw, while looked rough (I use to joke about this that whenever I grow jealous, I am entering "Parsee mode"). Always so much nice stuff around me that does not seem so hard to do, but when I try it, things just does not work. 
 

About references, it's pretty hard to find the one you actually need.

Also true. And when you have the problem of "Buffy speak" (dialogue indicating the awareness of an element and the inability to put it into words on the spot) when trying to look up online for the specific thing I need makes it even more confusing for a non-native English speaker. Be it a specific pose or object I need. 
 

I'm really sorry if I ended up sounding like a jerk that asserting dominance over you mate.

No problem. That is like that last thing I could be thinking of at the time. Also thank you for the latter part of your reply. As for the coloring part, it did happen to me too to have something that looked very good when drawing the lines, but then got ruined at adding colors.


 

Of course, there are artists who do like to warp those stuff around just for an artistic effect, but if someone's gonna draw something for it to be used as a reference for drawing, then it should be correct in regards to that.

Oh yeah, this reminds me that I forgot about posting the link for the folder of reference I was talking about, and which turned into quite a confusing problem with a mess of differently drawn charts and styles, and things that are more or less correctly made https://ro.pinterest.com/andreimorar02/reference-for-drawing/
Like I have seen multiple references for drawing boobs, and all of them say something different. And those that have some explanation written next to them, usually have that explanation written in Japanese or Korean, so I can't read it. 

 

Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it can be a bit awkward to look at photos of human models (especially if they're naked!), but you get used to it lol

People say I might be a little too innocent looking with this one. Which can be quite a problem in the long run if I keep being so prude. With all this innocence, I might be quite at risk of getting crushed by everyone around me, and end up with a woman to dominate me (not in the kinky way, but in the "she will control and abuse your life" kind of way). But anyway, art... Yeah, quite a problem when you feel too shy to analyse a real body, and your mind image has been greatly altered by over 1 year of continuous Touhou/anime art watching. 
 

If you want to draw humans, it's definitely recommended to study it. You should also study tanks, so that you become even better at drawing at them.

Definitely something I should try do, but when it comes to humans, it just goes back to the previous point. However, it works better for tanks.
 

MEGA is just like a file explorer with folders and stuffs, it's not very complicated.
Speaking of which, here's the archive if you or other artist friends are interested in this (Warning, it can be a bit NSFW): https://mega.nz/folder/BXJkjSKI#ef2mMsm1mkj2nf3amonPEA

Wow, I gave this thing a look, and the files are huge. Seems to be quite a lot to work with. 

 

 

[CountVonNumenor]

test drawing 

 

[Gou the frog]

test drawing 

You got those highlights down, the skin tone is moisture; The hair is also nicely done.

Let's trade drawing shall we?

View attachment 2557

Was originally drawn by Gou to help cosmic get some title screen idea.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

You got those highlights down, the skin tone is moisture; The hair is also nicely done.

What do you mean by skin tone being moisture? There are still some terminologies I am not very used to. Also thank you. I like drawing hair that looks fluffy, or at least would to draw it as such. 

 

Let's trade drawing shall we?

Wait, you drew this for Dream of Arcadia? It looks very good! I like it. Have you done anything more on that matter?

 

[Gou the frog]

Wait, you drew this for Dream of Arcadia? It looks very good! I like it. Have you done anything more on that matter?

It is Needlemouse who had drawn for Dream of Arcadia, I draw that for cosmic in hopes of giving him a title screen idea. (I'm an amateur at Digital Art, having created only two pieces but will create more and I'll love to take part in a game jam together with you guys)

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I was looking to pick some useful brushes for texturing hair. I really do not know what to pick, so I made a series of rough sketches using only just one brush per each. Anything I could make use of? From what I have asked, most people have told me none of them seems useful. 

Out of a series of multiple experiments 

 

[buskerdog]

My vote is on 2.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Time for trading drawings. I bring this Akyuu that made her way into Pixiv https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/98443520

 

[Gou the frog]

Time for trading drawings. I bring this Akyuu that made her way into Pixiv https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/98443520

Aye, she look like a wizard, with the posture and you've used your experimented brush? Also, I love the shading of hair, her dress and the flower! Respect has risen to a degree for featuring nails. Overall, smooth. 

Aye, my turn to trade,

This is the finished version and version of a piece I drew in 14 as I was rushing for an event as this might get into my newly opened pixiv. View attachment 2611

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Hey, that actually looks very nice! I like it quite a bit. Multiple characters, action pose, and you got the gluttonous goat. Is it some sort of cross-over with Yakuza (if the character next to Yuuma is from those games - I might be dumb and confuse with something else though)? 

 

[Gou the frog]

Hey, that actually looks very nice! I like it quite a bit. Multiple characters, action pose, and you got the gluttonous goat. Is it some sort of cross-over with Yakuza (if the character next to Yuuma is from those games - I might be dumb and confuse with something else though)? 

You got that right lad, it's from Yakuza and they're both bosses so, it would be fitting to put 'em next to each other and it is a sort of surprise that I drew for the character Goro Majima.

 

[Gou the frog]

Sketch for the hashihime Reimu (I might need the manga page again since I've forgotten about it)

View attachment 2644