Fantasy Tunnel Theory discussion

[Auya3]

Before I start this, I just wanna say sorry for the late reply, but I was enjoying my glorious weekend, lol. Anywho,

But if you're a youkai or a god and this chair is like your altar or weapon, it's no problem because it shares the magicality (made up word no.2) with you

I think this makes sense. I didn’t have much faith in my original theory in the first place, as I had just thought of something quickly and threw it out, but this seems pretty plausible. I think that in that case - in general - if you share magicality with an object that gets spirited away to Gensokyo, then the person magically linked to it will also be taken along. Well actually, it’s probably not so vague. I think more specifically, an item that resonates deeply with your soul on a magical level will be the said altar/catalyst (so something like a beloved childhood item still kept or something with immense memories). I think that when your soul resonates with a deeply sentimental valuable item special only to you, a magicality link is formed. And if that one special item (we’ll refer to it as a Catalyst from now on) gets spirited away, you’ll be taken along too. Maybe that could explain how humans get spirited away sometimes, maybe they’ve forgotten about an item deeply valuable to them, and by doing so they eventually end up in Gensokyo. Or with a Youkai, let’s say Hong Meiling for example, she let’s say completely forgot about an old book she used to read all the time, and when she had forgotten about it completely, she had gotten spirited away to Gensokyo along with her deeply rooted magical Catalyst. I think, more or less, that’s how spiriting away could work with Fantasy Tunnels.

I'm not exactly sure to the specifics, but the point is, is that I don't think it is Yukari who is always the one doing the "spiriting away" phenomenon

And also I just want to add, I don’t think she’s ever been the main cause of causing spiriting away. Maybe It’s more of a universal concept rather than an individual doing it?

 

[SateriCat17]

Before I start this, I just wanna say sorry for the late reply, but I was enjoying my glorious weekend, lol. Anywho,


I think this makes sense. I didn’t have much faith in my original theory in the first place, as I had just thought of something quickly and threw it out, but this seems pretty plausible. I think that in that case - in general - if you share magicality with an object that gets spirited away to Gensokyo, then the person magically linked to it will also be taken along. Well actually, it’s probably not so vague. I think more specifically, an item that resonates deeply with your soul on a magical level will be the said altar/catalyst (so something like a beloved childhood item still kept or something with immense memories). I think that when your soul resonates with a deeply sentimental valuable item special only to you, a magicality link is formed. And if that one special item (we’ll refer to it as a Catalyst from now on) gets spirited away, you’ll be taken along too. Maybe that could explain how humans get spirited away sometimes, maybe they’ve forgotten about an item deeply valuable to them, and by doing so they eventually end up in Gensokyo. Or with a Youkai, let’s say Hong Meiling for example, she let’s say completely forgot about an old book she used to read all the time, and when she had forgotten about it completely, she had gotten spirited away to Gensokyo along with her deeply rooted magical Catalyst. I think, more or less, that’s how spiriting away could work with Fantasy Tunnels.


And also I just want to add, I don’t think she’s ever been the main cause of causing spiriting away. Maybe It’s more of a universal concept rather than an individual doing it?

If that's the case, then it must be guaranteed I'll be spirited away to Gensokyo on account of all the things I valued when I was younger being forgotten by me over the years. lol
Also, for me, I think the cause of the spiriting away is both. It is a universal concept that then therefore occurs largely at random in reality, and then there are individuals (such as Yukari or gods) who can manipulate that phenomenon in some way.

 

[Auya3]

If that's the case, then it must be guaranteed I'll be spirited away to Gensokyo on account of all the things I valued when I was younger being forgotten by me over the years. lol

Fair, lmao, I guess a lot of people would be in some sort of ‘kyo if that were the case then. I guess I should change it to completely forgotten about, even subconsciously. So maybe even you forgot, if a small remnant of your memories of you being a kid with said item remains in your subconscious, then you can’t be spirited away. I think that nicely narrows down the candidates for being spirited away to any ‘Kyo.

 

[SateriCat17]

Fair, lmao, I guess a lot of people would be in some sort of ‘kyo if that were the case then. I guess I should change it to completely forgotten about, even subconsciously. So maybe even you forgot, if a small remnant of your memories of you being a kid with said item remains in your subconscious, then you can’t be spirited away. I think that nicely narrows down the candidates for being spirited away to any ‘Kyo.

I think there probably are also other conditions (such as even being forgotten about by friends and family, though not necessarily completely) which may also drag someone to one of the 'kyos.

 

[SateriCat17]

I think there probably are also other conditions (such as even being forgotten about by friends and family, though not necessarily completely) which may also drag someone to one of the 'kyos.

Me and my family personally have had a lot of unfortunateness in being normally forgotten by most other parts of our family (on both sides), so I can attest that something like that would probably happen in Touhou's world.

 

[Auya3]

I think there probably are also other conditions (such as even being forgotten about by friends and family, though not necessarily completely) which may also drag someone to one of the 'kyos.

Probably forgotten by everyone who’s ever witnessed it in general. For example let’s say a kid was walking around with a cool little pokemon trinket or something, and some scalper was walking by and noticed it. 20 years later that kid forgot about it completely and so did his family and anyone whoever saw it. That would immediately satisfy the conditions of the item spiriting away, but all of a sudden it actually can’t because that one scalper who saw it is still thinking about it to this day rueing the fact he didn’t buy something like that because it went up in price or something. That’s a pretty bad and rushed example, but I hope it gets my point across, that until the everyone who’s every layed eyes on it completely forgot about it consciously and subconsciously, it can’t spirit away, and even one person holding onto that memory can keep them in the human realm.

 

[Auya3]

Me and my family personally have had a lot of unfortunateness in being normally forgotten by most other parts of our family (on both sides), so I can attest that something like that would probably happen in Touhou's world.

Same with my family, lmao. I get you

 

[SateriCat17]

Probably forgotten by everyone who’s ever witnessed it in general. For example let’s say a kid was walking around with a cool little pokemon trinket or something, and some scalper was walking by and noticed it. 20 years later that kid forgot about it completely and so did his family and anyone whoever saw it. That would immediately satisfy the conditions of the item spiriting away, but all of a sudden it actually can’t because that one scalper who saw it is still thinking about it to this day rueing the fact he didn’t buy something like that because it went up in price or something. That’s a pretty bad and rushed example, but I hope it gets my point across, that until the everyone who’s every layed eyes on it completely forgot about it consciously and subconsciously, it can’t spirit away, and even one person holding onto that memory can keep them in the human realm.

Well, I feel like there's more to consider in how beings such as youkai may come into Gensokyo. It is not as if the youkai are definitively "forgotten about" or even there not being those who still hold on to the belief that such beings as youkai exist. I think it just depends on the conditions and what the thing in question is, though I see it still as something where for the most part, the necessary conditions are that at least MOST have forgotten about that thing.

 

[Auya3]

Well, I feel like there's more to consider in how beings such as youkai may come into Gensokyo. It is not as if the youkai are definitively "forgotten about" or even there not being those who still hold on to the belief that such beings as youkai exist. I think it just depends on the conditions and what the thing in question is, though I see it still as something where for the most part, the necessary conditions are that at least MOST have forgotten about that thing.

That’s true, when it comes with Youkai it does get more complicated. Maybe it’s not based on being completely forgotten, but once an item becomes forgotten enough, they start gaining fantisisity, sort of like a meter. Once an item has even a little bit of fantisisity, it can be rendered able to spirit away to any ‘kyo. However even then, there’s probably priority on the items that get spirited away, so items with the most fantasisity will be spirited away first, then it moves down the list or something. Either way the items need to be lucky enough to align with a Fantasy Tunnel (or intersect it I mean), so the chances are still extremely low.

 

[SateriCat17]

That’s true, when it comes with Youkai it does get more complicated. Maybe it’s not based on being completely forgotten, but once an item becomes forgotten enough, they start gaining fantisisity, sort of like a meter. Once an item has even a little bit of fantisisity, it can be rendered able to spirit away to any ‘kyo. However even then, there’s probably priority on the items that get spirited away, so items with the most fantasisity will be spirited away first, then it moves down the list or something. Either way the items need to be lucky enough to align with a Fantasy Tunnel (or intersect it I mean), so the chances are still extremely low.

That is pretty much exactly how I'm seeing it as being.

 

[SateriCat17]

Me and my family personally have had a lot of unfortunateness in being normally forgotten by most other parts of our family (on both sides), so I can attest that something like that would probably happen in Touhou's world.

Another thing is that I believe that with some select few, those of whom that have an extremely strong desire to "disappear" from the world or from society may also have a very rare chance of getting "spirited away" as well. Though the chances of it are probably even lower than normal items and such getting dragged into a 'kyo (especially considering it has to be a desire which is strong enough and has also lasted for long enough). To be based on some to what you had said as well, I think it is where if someone has a strong enough desire in wanting to disappear, a Fantasy Tunnel may then become "gravitated" toward that person and have a chance of pulling them inside (though it is not always guaranteed regardless).

 

[fazun]

Maybe that could explain how humans get spirited away sometimes, maybe they’ve forgotten about an item deeply valuable to them, and by doing so they eventually end up in Gensokyo

Honestly I don't find it reasonable. I think the subconscious is some kind of Gensokyoan thing too, therefore if something exists only one's subconscious, it's not real for one's mind. The item did indeed leave some traces in your brain, but you don't believe it's real because you don't even think about it, like if you never saw it in the first place.
By the bond between a person and an item (what you called catalyst) I meant something that would be forgotten with you, really. An item that would become fantasy too. If nobody believes in a god and doesn't even know about him existing, his altar and shrine would be abandoned too, right?

 

[fazun]

Another thing is that I believe that with some select few, those of whom that have an extremely strong desire to "disappear" from the world or from society may also have a very rare chance of getting "spirited away" as well. Though the chances of it are probably even lower than normal items and such getting dragged into a 'kyo (especially considering it has to be a desire which is strong enough and has also lasted for long enough). To be based on some to what you had said as well, I think it is where if someone has a strong enough desire in wanting to disappear, a Fantasy Tunnel may then become "gravitated" toward that person and have a chance of pulling them inside (though it is not always guaranteed regardless).

I don't think a human could just increase his chances of moving to Gensokyo by doing anything, because a human cannot just become more or less unreal. Humans are main sources of fear for youkai, faith for god and belief for things/people to keep them real. Human believing he's real, even if the only one in the whole world, won't become fantasy.

 

[SateriCat17]

I don't think a human could just increase his chances of moving to Gensokyo by doing anything, because a human cannot just become more or less unreal. Humans are main sources of fear for youkai, faith for god and belief for things/people to keep them real. Human believing he's real, even if the only one in the whole world, won't become fantasy.

I suppose so.

 

[Auya3]

The item did indeed leave some traces in your brain, but you don't believe it's real because you don't even think about it, like if you never saw it in the first place.

Well I suppose that’s fair.

I meant something that would be forgotten with you, really. An item that would become fantasy too.

I also suppose your reasoning for this is fair. Guess I misunderstood a tad bit, lol. Well in that case I guess the thought that if your catalyst gets spirited away so do you gets thrown out the window. No matter. In that case we’re pretty much set back to square one since we can’t use catalysts as an explanation for how people spirit away with Fantasy Tunnels. It could’ve been that maybe if a human has a deep desire to disappear, they could be spirited away, but I think there’s a better explanation for the same premise. Maybe a human can manipulate the chances of them spiriting away, but instead of how badly they want to disappear, how badly they believe they can disappear. So instead of it being a desire, it’s faith. Human faith powers magic in the world of Touhou and supplies the gods, so maybe faith is a universal thing in which if a human has enough faith they themselves can disappear, they’ll have artificial fantisisity, and have a chance of spiriting away.

 

[SateriCat17]

Well I suppose that’s fair.


I also suppose your reasoning for this is fair. Guess I misunderstood a tad bit, lol. Well in that case I guess the thought that if your catalyst gets spirited away so do you gets thrown out the window. No matter. In that case we’re pretty much set back to square one since we can’t use catalysts as an explanation for how people spirit away with Fantasy Tunnels. It could’ve been that maybe if a human has a deep desire to disappear, they could be spirited away, but I think there’s a better explanation for the same premise. Maybe a human can manipulate the chances of them spiriting away, but instead of how badly they want to disappear, how badly they believe they can disappear. So instead of it being a desire, it’s faith. Human faith powers magic in the world of Touhou and supplies the gods, so maybe faith is a universal thing in which if a human has enough faith they themselves can disappear, they’ll have artificial fantisisity, and have a chance of spiriting away.

Now that sounds pretty close to what I was just trying to say (I just wasn't looking at it at the exact right direction). Well, ironically that does sound pretty similar to some of the personal circumstances I've been dealing with recently, though I'll keep ambiguity on the specifics of it.

 

[Auya3]

Now that sounds pretty close to what I was just trying to say (I just wasn't looking at it at the exact right direction). Well, ironically that does sound pretty similar to some of the personal circumstances I've been dealing with recently, though I'll keep ambiguity on the specifics of it.

Keep your stuff ambiguous, but anywho, if there aren’t much objections to it then I’m mostly sure that’s what it is. If someone has enough faith on them believing they’ll disappear, they’ll have some artificial fantasisity and have a small chance of spiriting away.

 

[fazun]

Keep your stuff ambiguous, but anywho, if there aren’t much objections to it then I’m mostly sure that’s what it is. If someone has enough faith on them believing they’ll disappear, they’ll have some artificial fantasisity and have a small chance of spiriting away.

Yeah, I guess a madman no one knows believing he does not exist would really become fantasy.

By the way, I just realised we rolled out so many walls of text over Gensokyo logic. Read it again. Gensokyo logic

 

[Auya3]

By the way, I just realised we rolled so many walls of text over Gensokyo logic. Read it again. Gensokyo logic

We are what they call true Gensokyians then I assume, lol.

 

[fazun]

We are what they call true Gensokyians then I assume, lol.

We gotta forget each other to get to Gensokyo then