Do Japanese fans pirate content?

[buskerdog]

This is something that randomly popped into my head the other day when I was thinking back to the times we could still host everything on here as simple file downloads. Do Japanese fans pirate? Touhou has a larger following over there than overseas, and although it is also possible to find Touhou games legitimately in doujin shops over there, I imagine that the older generation of games must have become pretty scarce at some point.

Before Touhou games came to steam, most Western fans would just pirate them. Even when they did start coming to steam, it took a very long time for any games that weren't the most recent to be added, so if you wanted something older, fans would still pirate them. And even now, there are still games in the series which are not available on steam. Despite what Reddit would tell you, piracy for the Western fanbase has definitely been a normality and even a necessity over the years. But what I want to know is if, at any point in Touhou's history, Japanese fans have had the same perspective? Has the Japanese fanbase ever pirated on the same level that western fans have a reputation for?

 

[SasaMisa]

Having never lived, studied, or worked in Japan, I can't say for certain, except I can tell you I've dealt with Japanese people who had no problem with bending or breaking the rules when it comes to providing such material. Indeed, my own personal collection would be pretty small if they did, considering a lot of it was not intended for sale outside of Japan. Funnily enough, the same is true for my brother as well, in that Konami arcade PCBs were never meant to be shipped outside the country, or whole machines either for that matter, but there you have it. (^_^

If we're purely just talking pirated stuff though, many of the manga/doujinshi scans I have originally came from Japanese sites, and so did some of the fangames too, so I guess everybody is guilty of it to an extent, although perhaps not quite as bad as the West. (^_~)

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Despite what Reddit would tell you, piracy for the Western fanbase has definitely been a normality and even a necessity over the years.

Slightly off topic, but I managed to find a discussion from the very same Reddit. Only difference is that it was over 9 years ago, and back then the discussion and stance in regards to piracy was quite... different to say the lest. Here are some of the paragraphs I have found interesting.

From the opening post of the thread:

Spoiler

I've also heard that there's no chance that ZUN would ever allow his games to be officially released abroad. Or sold on any digital distribution platforms. Nor would be even allow fangames to be sold on digital distribution platforms. However, that already exists, just not on digital distribution platforms popular in the West like Steam or Good old Games. Google Play has Touhou fangames for Android. And DLSite has Touhou fangames for PC. Though no digital distribution platforms that I am aware of, sell officially Touhou games.

Normally, such a statement there would get you banned, or at least your thread removed by a moderator in a matter of seconds. I reposted one of my Moriya forum threads there (TheOVJM discussion), and accidentally left intact a link towards one of buskerdog's threads about music. Once a moderator spotted that following a report, my thread was removed until I deleted the link. Lesson learnt: not even the Moriya Shrine forum is safe from the bad reputation because "it promotes piracy".

Now from the replied themselves (back in the day, there seems to have also been some problems about an anime):

I don't know a lot of details about everything you mention here, but I do know a few things. One of which is that ZUN is not actively opposed to digital release or international release. In his panel at AWA someone asked about steam and he said he liked the idea of steam, it just isn't necessarily going to happen soon or ever. As for his ZUN being against professional voice actresses in his anime and such. The reason behind that is because ZUN doesn't want any commercial company getting any form of rights over his franchise, because he wants the fans to be able to make what they please without red tape getting in their way. Due to this ZUN has avoided letting any corporate anime companies get their hands on Touhou.

Oh good, I'd been told by people for years that there was absolutely no chance that ZUN would ever allow the games to be put on any digital distribution platforms. Good to see that wasn't true, I assume people just assumed that was true. I knew that there would be some good information that would come out of AWA.

I'm sad, then, that people have been spreading this idea that ZUN doesn't want his games sold that way, and etc.

ZUN basically wants to preserve Touhou as a 'fangame/doujin' series. He really enjoys the Japanese convention style, where people come together to celebrate things they love with others with similar interests. Producing stories, goods, etc.

He purposely leaves the story and characters vague, with the amount of detail that he adds in game (only conversation and a simple summary) and print works being rather minimal. This allows people to create their own theories about what characters are like (Example... every character ever).

He really likes Japanese culture and sees the doujin industry as a huge part of its modernization. He will essentially oppose any distribution method outside of established doujin avenues, including digital distribution models. Citing some weird Touhou TCG that was selling booster packs by mail-order and Koumajou Densetsu digital downloading for overseas fans (they ended up settling for a downloadable translation patch on their site instead of having the full game up there)

About the anime, he was concerned about the fact it had professional seiyuu, not just one, the whole cast was probably top-tier. The reason on his blog was that he was worried it would be recognized as canon material due to its perceived production value. Newcomers to the series would identify the events that happen in A Summer Day's Dream to be true and make lasting opinions of the characters based on that.

I'm not entirely sure about the commercialization of Touhou. It's already gotten there to some extent to be fair. I know for a fact he wants to keep Touhou from having an official anime because it would introduce too many concrete facts to the world and characters, being a giant leap in the wrong direction from his 'vagueness' strategy. I'm not sure if the whole official anime thing would actually affect the doujin scene from a legal standpoint.

Spoiler

I hope he does. While the western fanbase obviously isn't as dense as the Japanese one, it's definitely there, and it makes little sense for us having to pirate it out of necessity. Getting an original copy is nigh impossible.

A question I've always had, I've heard ZUN doesn't mind it if people abroad pirate the touhou games, as he doesn't lose sales from it? Has anyone heard confirmation or denial of that? I heard it ages ago, in only a single place to boot, and it always seemed off.

The anti-piracy scare comes mostly from the corporate overlords who see every pirated game as a lost sale. If your only way of reasonably getting the game is piracy, most independent developers would even encourage you to do it. It's more exposure to them, and they take pleasure in simply knowing someone is enjoying what they make. I mean, if the person wouldn't buy the game anyway, piracy is the better outcome for the developer in that scenario. It's easy to see why. If you see the Extra Credits episode on piracy, they make it perfectly clear that to them, unavaliability justifies piracy. I'm willing to bet ZUN has a similar opinion.

Interesting. This one really would cause you trouble nowadays if you said it, under the pretext that every game from Touhou 9 to 18 is available on Steam. Unfortunately, we may not get to see Touhou 6-8 in any other legal form but CDs for a (possibly) long time, while PC-98 might be lost now that he went even after those games. 

For anyone who wants to read the source I took these from, here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/1rhif8/help_me_to_understand_zuns_philosophy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

[Tenkko]

My guess is it's fairly commonplace, we just don't see it because I assume most of us don't hang out in Japanese communities. Though maybe not as much as in the west like Sasa said.

Fair warning I'm about to talk out my ass, but maybe in the early years of Touhou there might've been more incentive to pirate? Because of limited supply? I don't know how circles handle/used to handle that. Also there could be a certain uh, camaraderie in the doujin scene that makes piracy within that sector be frowned upon, like you see here with indie stuff.