Magic team felt miserable to play in th08 (skill issue?)

So I finished EoSD and PCB with MarisaB, had an absolute blast and not too much of an issue. I naturally tried playing the magic team once I got to IN, but it went so badly, I had to swallow my pride and pick barrier team instead. Is there something wrong (different) with the magic team, or I just need to get good™? And should I expect something similar in the following games?

NuMetalFan said:

So I finished EoSD and PCB with MarisaB, had an absolute blast and not too much of an issue. I naturally tried playing the magic team once I got to IN, but it went so badly, I had to swallow my pride and pick barrier team instead. Is there something wrong (different) with the magic team, or I just need to get good™? And should I expect something similar in the following games?

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I mean, I would naturally assume that picking Marisa in any Touhou game would makes thing difficult since she will need to reposition a lot if she wants to deal effective damage against enemies or deal with enemies she can't hit on screen depending on her position which is more likely going to get you hit. One thing that makes Magic Team (& Scarlet Devil Team) difficult in Imperishable Night is Stage 4 Boss, Reimu who is much more difficult than Marisa.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with Magic Team but the game just starts to spike in difficultly when you reach Stage 4.

Forbidden Magic Team is easily the worst team shot in IN, that's why. They don't deal enough damage for how little range they have (especially Alice's dinky laser), Alice's bombs are some of the worst in the series, Marisa's gimmick of always being able to auto collect is worthless since ALL youkai partners can do the same. Reimu/Yukari have better survivability, Sakuya/Remi do better damage, and Youmu/Yuyuko just do everything better since they're the best shot in the game. Marisa saves the experience from being as bad as Alice or Sakuya solo, but it's still not a fun time.

YuyuFumo said:

Forbidden Magic Team is easily the worst team shot in IN, that's why. They don't deal enough damage for how little range they have (especially Alice's dinky laser), Alice's bombs are some of the worst in the series, Marisa's gimmick of always being able to auto collect is worthless since ALL youkai partners can do the same. Reimu/Yukari have better survivability, Sakuya/Remi do better damage, and Youmu/Yuyuko just do everything better since they're the best shot in the game. Marisa saves the experience from being as bad as Alice or Sakuya solo, but it's still not a fun time.

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I can certainly agree that that the Youmu/Yuyuko team are the best in IN (I mean, I got my first major 1cc with them after all).
And also that the Magic Team have pretty bad shots/bombs. It's sad, as IN is the only Touhou danmaku game where Alice is playable.

YuyuFumo said:

Forbidden Magic Team is easily the worst team shot in IN, that's why. They don't deal enough damage for how little range they have (especially Alice's dinky laser), Alice's bombs are some of the worst in the series, Marisa's gimmick of always being able to auto collect is worthless since ALL youkai partners can do the same. Reimu/Yukari have better survivability, Sakuya/Remi do better damage, and Youmu/Yuyuko just do everything better since they're the best shot in the game. Marisa saves the experience from being as bad as Alice or Sakuya solo, but it's still not a fun time.

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Idk man, I've abused the absurd damage of the malice cannon to great effect.

YuyuFumo said:

Forbidden Magic Team is easily the worst team shot in IN, that's why. They don't deal enough damage for how little range they have (especially Alice's dinky laser), Alice's bombs are some of the worst in the series, Marisa's gimmick of always being able to auto collect is worthless since ALL youkai partners can do the same. Reimu/Yukari have better survivability, Sakuya/Remi do better damage, and Youmu/Yuyuko just do everything better since they're the best shot in the game. Marisa saves the experience from being as bad as Alice or Sakuya solo, but it's still not a fun time.

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Damn, I had a feeling. But what about Youmu/Yuyuko makes it the best team? At first glance, it's the most clunky one by far. (It does have the funniest dialogue at least)
Also, I was well aware of the exploit but decided not to use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

NuMetalFan said:

Damn, I had a feeling. But what about Youmu/Yuyuko makes it the best team? At first glance, it's the most clunky one by far. (It does have the funniest dialogue at least)
Also, I was well aware of the exploit but decided not to use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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For me, I find them easy to use as both Youmu and Yuyuko do a lot of damage, they both seem to have pretty good bombs, and they have the best "adaptability" when switching between them quickly. Of course, otherwise, I'm not real sure why they work so well for me. (Though, their funny dialogue could be one reason, as it motivates me a little. lol)

SateriCat17 said:

For me, I find them easy to use as both Youmu and Yuyuko do a lot of damage, they both seem to have pretty good bombs, and they have the best "adaptability" when switching between them quickly. Of course, otherwise, I'm not real sure why they work so well for me. (Though, their funny dialogue could be one reason, as it motivates me a little. lol)

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I mean, you'd normally use the human for the stages, and the youkai for bosses, but this team incentives the opposite. Am I missing something? But that's assuming you're trying to maximize the gauge. The gauge was pissing me off though, I was glad to realize it's not required for a 1CC.

NuMetalFan said:

I mean, you'd normally use the human for the stages, and the youkai for bosses, but this team incentives the opposite. Am I missing something? But that's assuming you're trying to maximize the gauge. The gauge was pissing me off though, I was glad to realize it's not required for a 1CC.

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I only pay attention to the gauge when I feel like it. I still don't understand the mechanics behind it much myself. Still, what you said about them being the "opposite" could be one reason I do better with them, but idk.
I think overall, I'd probably do as good, if not even more-so with the Scarlet Team, but fighting Reimu in IN is next to impossible for me, so that is yet another reason I tend to choose Youmu and Yuyuko over the others.
Regardless, Youmu and Yuyuko feel the least "wonky" to me of IN's teams, so that's as well one of the main reasons I tend to choose them.
(I'm pretty tired, so my explanations are terrible right now... -_-)

NuMetalFan said:

Damn, I had a feeling. But what about Youmu/Yuyuko makes it the best team? At first glance, it's the most clunky one by far. (It does have the funniest dialogue at least)
Also, I was well aware of the exploit but decided not to use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Youmu deals very high single target damage and she only needs half of the human gauge filled to generate time orbs with her shot but her shot is pretty clunky to use and her bomb only targets what's in front of her so the reward for escape bombing is underwhelming compared to other characters.

Yuyuko's shot deals a lot of damage and it spreads making it effective for dealing with groups of enemies but Youmu's shot does the most the damage so it's more effective at bossing. Other than that, I don't think there really is any issues with Yuyuko. In addition, the team gets rewarded a bomb for clearing a stage if you had less than 3 so can be helpful you now how to bomb but not if it's something you struggle with.

If you're going for the best ending (Route B) you can pretty much ignore the time system since it only helps with getting more continues and spellcard collecting if you're interested in that. You can't get the best ending if you use continues.

War said:

Idk man, I've abused the absurd damage of the malice cannon to great effect.

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I prefer not to shred the shit out of my keyboard if possible, also feel like the damage is really overstated when you can just get the same results by playing Remilia or Youmu. If you have to use an exploit as a crutch to make a shot type good, then it wasn't a good shot type to begin with.

NuMetalFan said:

Damn, I had a feeling. But what about Youmu/Yuyuko makes it the best team? At first glance, it's the most clunky one by far. (It does have the funniest dialogue at least)
Also, I was well aware of the exploit but decided not to use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Others have mentioned it, but Youmu is tied with Remilia for best raw damage in the game when both her and Myon are hitting enemies. You can also angle Myon to hit enemies in weird spots, all of which can be reset to forward-firing with the press of the shift key. Youmu's human gauge only going to halfway full makes her a beast at farming time orbs as well, which are needed to see all of Kaguya's final spells (at least if you're bad and fuck them up, moving the clock forward).

Yuyuko is just a straight up better version of Sakuya with how much damage her spread shot deals. In many of the game's stages, you actually have to stop firing to allow fairies to summon their spirits if you want the time orbs because Yuyu will kill them before they're able to do so. Shotgunning with her, while not optimal, is another strategy that can deal extremely high amounts of damage to bosses. I think it's also worth mentioning that Youmu has very fast movement speed while Youmu has very slow movement speed, allowing excellent macro and micro-dodging in a single package.

The only hangup are their bombs, which are still good but not great (they're the only team that's not able to clear a Mokou non-spell with a single bomb). You get an extra bomb after clearing a stage with less than three in stock, though, so that kinda makes up for it. They're also somewhat difficult to use with focuses and unfocused shots being swapped, but absolutely worth it if you put in the time to doing so.

YuyuFumo said:

Others have mentioned it, but Youmu is tied with Remilia for best raw damage in the game when both her and Myon are hitting enemies. You can also angle Myon to hit enemies in weird spots, all of which can be reset to forward-firing with the press of the shift key. Youmu's human gauge only going to halfway full makes her a beast at farming time orbs as well, which are needed to see all of Kaguya's final spells (at least if you're bad and fuck them up, moving the clock forward).

Yuyuko is just a straight up better version of Sakuya with how much damage her spread shot deals. In many of the game's stages, you actually have to stop firing to allow fairies to summon their spirits if you want the time orbs because Yuyu will kill them before they're able to do so. Shotgunning with her, while not optimal, is another strategy that can deal extremely high amounts of damage to bosses. I think it's also worth mentioning that Youmu has very fast movement speed while Youmu has very slow movement speed, allowing excellent macro and micro-dodging in a single package.

The only hangup are their bombs, which are still good but not great (they're the only team that's not able to clear a Mokou non-spell with a single bomb). You get an extra bomb after clearing a stage with less than three in stock, though, so that kinda makes up for it. They're also somewhat difficult to use with focuses and unfocused shots being swapped, but absolutely worth it if you put in the time to doing so.

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Now that I think about it, the combination of high speed, damage and skill floor/ceiling is exactly why I always picked Marisa, so I'd give this team another shot next time. I also liked the scarlet team, it seems easy to get used to and I saw the potential, but ultimately forgot about it. Oh well, I won't be touching IN anytime soon anyway.