Where to learn Touhou lore

[buskerdog]

So basically, I've been playing the Touhou games (6 - 10 so far) to learn more about the stories and characters and such, but I have a few problems.

1) Although playing the games gets you the gist of what's happening, it doesn't really tell you anything about the backstory of the characters outside of small references they may make in their speech or as spellcard titles. The lack of a prologue of any kind makes the events in the games themselves pretty confusing as well, seeing as they usually go for an in media res and throw you straight into the first stage without any kind of context.

2) There are some Touhou games I'm just not interested in playing. Specifically, the older fighting games, as they have nothing to offer over the newer ones.

3) I don't want to read a wiki page.

But honestly, Touhou characters seem to have a lot of lore that just isn't explained in the games. Where do people find these backstories???

And I might as well ask while I'm here: How significant are the PC-98 games in terms of story/character history? I want to get round to playing them eventually, but I'm not sure whether I should play them sooner or later.

 

[Rantos]

@buskerdogI could be wrong, but...

What I've found is that the official comics and manga give insight to some aspects of Touhou lore, but the in media res problem kind of persists all throughout the official series.  A lot of what you learn in Touhou lore comes from what people talk about happening in the past.  Character interactions that hint at the vague history of Gensokyo become your best friend and there are a few blanks you just gotta fill in yourself.  I respect that you don't wanna read the wiki pages, but it's a hub when it comes to the information sought after because of questions like yours.

I'd say look for the official comics, here's a list: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Official_Literature

Also, if you have any interest in looking at the translations of the many fan songs that exist, a lot of the artists try to accurately capture the feeling of a character or a setting or a storyline only hinted at.  But that requires a lot of cross-referencing with other songs to see which themes stay consistent from song to song.  Songs also often incorporate a lot of fan-cannon so be careful,  that method is more supplemental than anything haha.

It just takes a lot of digging and a lot of playing and a lot of filling in the blanks, I think haha.  If I recall correctly, the PC-98 games aren't heavy with lore,  they do feature places that are interesting and not returned to often, like Hell.  So just get to playing those games when you feel like it haha.

That's my take, anyway.  I hope it helps at all!

 

[jssf1992]

Well, to put my thoughts on these in turn . .  .

1) You aren't missing much.  To be frank, Zun's plots are generally excuse plots.  His dialouge has some offbeat humor, but intricate plots and compelling characters simply isn't something he does.  There's a reason fanmade material can have such a wide range.

2) That's unfortunate.  I'ld understand if you aren't a fan of fighters or IaMP/SWRs' setup, but they are a decent look at the roster's personalities.  They are part of the reason why the 6-8 cast is as popular as they are, and more consistent in fan-portrayals than some of the later ones.  (I also personally prefer the older fighters to the newer ones, but that's opinion)  They are not essential by any means though, just a good point of reference.

3) Understandable, given that there isn't a whole lot to gotten aside from the massive number of characters.

There are a few print works however, that are of some help.  Only some help, however, as many of the one that would explore the lore are written by in-universe characters, and thus, not entirely reliable.  Grimoire of Marisa and Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red are examples, the former being Marisa commenting on the Spellcard system and the magic used by others, the second being Aya's newspaper (unfortunately known for stretching the truth).  Most other printworks are comedic, slice of life style.  The notable exception however, is Silent Sinner in Blue, which is a fairly serious and dramatic story, which, while rather mediocre in my opinion, is probably as definitive as you can get with the 6-8 cast.

Given how loose the plot is between the games, the PC-98 is hardly essential for understanding anything in rest of the series.  There are only four characters returning from that era, Reimu, Marisa, Yuuka Kazami, and Alice Margatroid.  Reimu and Marisa are the same, though Marisa started as a rival working for/aprentice of one of the era's main villains; Mima.  Yuuka was a villain from the fourth game, and knowing this explains Reimu's reaction to her in PoFV, the only game in which she has reapeared.  Alice appeared in the fifth game, then became a reoccuring character for a while (6-11), and reversing Yuuka, knowing this explains some of Alice's behavior.

When it comes down to it, though, only a handful of characters have well-defined personalities, and the setting and lore are often frustratingly vague.  A lot of what the fanbase will talk about is just commonly accepted headcanon, rather than actual "top order canon" material.  Even most of the official print works aren't written by Zun, and are quite loose with established rules and knowledge about the setting (hence the usual comedic angle).

 

[buskerdog]

Thank you both for your responses, they've been helpful.

What I've found is that the official comics and manga give insight to some aspects of Touhou lore, but the in media res problem kind of persists all throughout the official series.  A lot of what you learn in Touhou lore comes from what people talk about happening in the past.  Character interactions that hint at the vague history of Gensokyo become your best friend and there are a few blanks you just gotta fill in yourself.  I respect that you don't wanna read the wiki pages, but it's a hub when it comes to the information sought after because of questions like yours.

Welp, I guess I've got a lot of blank-filling ahead of me. The print works should hopefully help a bit though. Good to know it's not just me completely missing things.

If I recall correctly, the PC-98 games aren't heavy with lore,  they do feature places that are interesting and not returned to often, like Hell.  So just get to playing those games when you feel like it haha.

I suppose I'll play them later rather than sooner. Visiting Hell sounds interesting though.

Apparently I can't get more than two quotes in one post? Hold on, gotta do another post...

 

[buskerdog]

That's unfortunate.  I'ld understand if you aren't a fan of fighters or IaMP/SWRs' setup, but they are a decent look at the roster's personalities.  They are part of the reason why the 6-8 cast is as popular as they are, and more consistent in fan-portrayals than some of the later ones.  (I also personally prefer the older fighters to the newer ones, but that's opinion)  They are not essential by any means though, just a good point of reference.

After reading this, it's made me rethink my approach a bit. I do plan to eventually play all the danmaku games, if that wasn't made clear, but maybe I'll give the old fighters a shot as well. I've tried IaMP, but my main problem with it is that I just don't find the gameplay fun - probably because I suck at fighting games that aren't smash bros.

Well, actually, my problems with IaMP go a bit further than that.

IaMP just doesn't seem to run completely properly on my computer. My antivirus is convinced that the game will end my computer or something, and although I can still run it by telling my antivirus to shut up, it has some... weird problems. The actual gameplay works fine, but when I try to start the story mode, a tab saying 'unable to create temporary replay data', or something along those lines, comes up and the game doesn't run until I exit the tab, close the tab with error message, and open the tab with the game again. Furthermore, the game can't pause. It just can't. Also, maybe it's just me, but the timing to do special moves (as in, the ones where you move the stick as if you were going to throw a hadoken in streetfighter, or another move of the like) seems super tight. Like, impossibly precise. To the point the game is kind of unplayable because your best moves are gated. I haven't played streetfighter, but Ryu/Ken in smash bros can still do their special inputs there and the timing is much more fair - I can actually do them - and given that game's attention to detail, I'd imagine that it's similar timing to how it is in their home games. Sorry, this has turned into a bit of a rant, but basically I want to know if it's just me who has this problem or if special moves are actually that difficult.

In the end I may just try IaMP on easy difficulty. I don't like it when I have to use easy difficulty for anything, but if it at least gets me through the story then I suppose I might.

 

[jssf1992]

Well, as I said, the fighters aren't essential, so if fighters aren't your thing, you can skip them.  There isn't really any continuity you're missing out on.  IaMP is harder to get into than the others though, due to it's unique gimmick with the controls (changing between melee and ranged attack based on the distance between opponents) takes a lot of getting used to.  SWR switches to a more "conventional" control scheme, using command normals rather than the gimmick (and has a different gimmick).

I have no idea what's up with your anti-virus.  Sadly, false positive are a thing we have deal with, and coming up with a way around it is tricky. (and not my area of expertise)

I think you're talking about the Z-input (forward/back,down,diagonal), which honestly . . . really ticks me off.  It's never felt natural to me in all my time playing fighters.  I've never been precise enough to make it work on joystick, and I've never quite gotten it into my muscle memory for keyboard.  Thankfully, I've only ever played one character (Seth from UNIB) who actually needs the move in that slot.

While not canon, many of the characters are given a good portrayal in Sengoku Gensokyo (though, all cards on the table, I am nostalgic regarding the game), if you're willing to look at fan portrayals.

 

[buskerdog]

I think you're talking about the Z-input (forward/back,down,diagonal), which honestly . . . really ticks me off.  It's never felt natural to me in all my time playing fighters.  I've never been precise enough to make it work on joystick, and I've never quite gotten it into my muscle memory for keyboard.  Thankfully, I've only ever played one character (Seth from UNIB) who actually needs the move in that slot.

It's not just Z inputs (although playing Ryu in smash those are still tricky), it's all command inputs, even simple quarter-circle motions. Normally I can do those fine, but in IaMP I really struggle to make those work (so you can only imagine how hard I find it to do a Z input in IaMP). I don't know if it's due to Windows 10, my antivirus, or if IaMP just has tight timing for those moves. But when I get round to SWR, I just hope that it doesn't have the same issues. Especially the unable to pause issue. You wouldn't imagine how much of a pain that is.

 

[Cejic]

Well, as I said, the fighters aren't essential, so if fighters aren't your thing, you can skip them.  There isn't really any continuity you're missing out on.  IaMP is harder to get into than the others though, due to it's unique gimmick with the controls (changing between melee and ranged attack based on the distance between opponents) takes a lot of getting used to.  SWR switches to a more "conventional" control scheme, using command normals rather than the gimmick (and has a different gimmick).

I have no idea what's up with your anti-virus.  Sadly, false positive are a thing we have deal with, and coming up with a way around it is tricky. (and not my area of expertise)

I think you're talking about the Z-input (forward/back,down,diagonal), which honestly . . . really ticks me off.  It's never felt natural to me in all my time playing fighters.  I've never been precise enough to make it work on joystick, and I've never quite gotten it into my muscle memory for keyboard.  Thankfully, I've only ever played one character (Seth from UNIB) who actually needs the move in that slot.

While not canon, many of the characters are given a good portrayal in Sengoku Gensokyo (though, all cards on the table, I am nostalgic regarding the game), if you're willing to look at fan portrayals.

Dont most Z inputs accept a backwards quarter-circle, 8th forward circle? (not sure most z-moves I attempt I use a keyboard for and then it just becomes a dance between down and forward that's fairly easy.) also iirc IaMP is just super finicky in even it's most basic controls whenever I tried it. I wouldn't use it's setup to judge SWR, as the latter is much more fluid and intuitive.

 

[￰￰]

The Touhou Wiki is pretty much your only choice at this point for "backstory"/lore. Just going from character page to character page and reading print works on it will give you enough information.