"Touhou Stereotypes"

[CountVonNumenor]

This is a brief return, albeit in a lite form, towards the old reviews I used to make towards different bits of Touhou media created by the Western side of the community. And what better pick for the 1st April but stereotypes associated with Touhou characters and the people who like them? (DISCLAIME: stereotypes are just that, stereotypes; it does mean they universally apply, or that all people who like x or y are in a specific way). 

The history of the Western community talking about stereotypical associations within the fandom does not seem to be so old (at least as far as I am aware, but I might be wrong as I have only been around for 2 years). Therefore, we have to start with the first person who has put it in video form, that one being...

1) Beastmaster Zeman

On the 27th December 2020, a video titled "What your favorite Touhou character says about you" made its debut in many people's YouTube feed. Made as a satire, the video covers characters from Touhou 6 to 17 (latest game at the time), while mostly skipping annex official content such as manga and music CDs:



I am not so sure if I should go into extracting stereotypes from this one, but probably the one association that caught my attention in the whole series was that for those who like Akyuu from Part 1 of the series:

"Historians. Akyuu fans share a bit between Kosuzu and Yukari fans. They are likely historians that enjoy reading the history of their interests, whether it be stuff they learn in class or history of freaking Fumos for goodness sake. Akyuu fans probably know it all. They likely watch the lost media channels like blameitonjorge, LsupersonicQ and Sakura Stardust. Finding and documenting the obscure is an occupant favorite pastime. They are pretty mature considering that Akyuu  in universe is... [shows image of Akyuu's age at her manga debut back in 2006]. Oh, oh no... These people are very rare to find, likely due to them searching for lost media or reading books with their Kosuzu fan friend or something like that. And if you're probably an Akyuu fan you probably have read the Forbidden Scrollery which isn't exactly that well known to newer fans"

I am extremely surprised. Finally, a stereotype that actually sounds positive, and one, give or take my personal bias, is actually quite accurate. As someone whose favorite character is Akyuu. I am pleasantly surprised to say that I am actually fitting into the description for most of the part. I really like studying history, I am quite curious for more obscure stuff, and right now I am trying to document in a (currently 50 pages long) research about the armored units, acquisition policies and equipment used by the Romanian armored units through the interwar and Second World War era. Sadly, I still lack a Kosuzu friend, but at least I also do have Kosuzu in my personal top 10 2hus. 

Well, with all this in mind, I will just leave here my updated Touhou sorter. It is open to any discussion, and I really wonder what do you think about any of the stereotypes mentioned. Or maybe you have some of your own stereotypes, which might be even more interesting.

 

[Canaranjo]

I've seen at least first 3 videos, or in he case of XG3E, bore witness to his "mommy" videos absolutely rampaging my recommended for a time. Good old youtube.

And all I have to say is... well, I just don't agree at all with any of what they say. One is just a fad of repeating the same clip with swapped fanart of one particular character (some, admittedly nice) while the other two either write something purely for meme value, characterize your personality as being the same as your favorite Touhou character or make up a personality that quite frankly does not relate to anything I've seen in reality (at least by any form of specific behavior, it's all broad strokes when it lands). Speaking of suwawako: Maybe he's a had a lot more contact with the fanbase to draw these stereotypes, but in my eyes, the feel like some attempt to imagine what the fan of each character would look like, to pad out for content. Personality Tests are an evergreen mine of clicks,so from a channel maker standpoint, these are a great idea, even if you have to complement anecdotal experience with pure conjecture, or worse, instinct.

As for my top 10: Aside from the podium always being Patchouli, Suika and Yuyuko, the rest of the list is pretty volatile and seems to change every time I do that test. It's interesting because it doesn't ask you a traditional placing of characters in a list, but rather, decides your preference for you in a duel format. Perhaps that's a better way of rating what your true preferences are? I find it to be messy, especially, after reflecting for a bit, I realize often don't give the right answer to a duel question simply because I want to move on quickly from a poll with so many questions.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I've seen at least first 3 videos, or in he case of XG3E, bore witness to his "mommy" videos absolutely rampaging my recommended for a time. Good old YouTube.

I remember watching the original "mommy" video soon after it was first recommended in my feed. I was familiar with the "x be like" and "y slander", or at least with examples that I had fun with. I was not expecting however to see this one format exploding within the Touhou community however, and literally spawn dozens of channels that copied the formula for a "quick buck".  But it is what it is. The trend os gone, or at least mostly gone (there still are some weird mutations f it you might be able to find every blue moon, and with some mutations compared to the original).

Now that I think of it, Touhou fans be like...

Speaking of suwawako: Maybe he's a had a lot more contact with the fanbase to draw these stereotypes, but in my eyes, the feel like some attempt to imagine what the fan of each character would look like, to pad out for content.

Yeah, I really felt that with some of the connections he made. Some of them really did not feel like what you would expect from someone who likes one character or another. Despite personals bias, I tried to check out if I can identify myself with some of the archetypes he created for my top 10 characters according to the sorter. And what I can is that, outside the example for Akyuu, I feel that everything else was a hit or miss (with more misses to be fair). Which only proves my opening statement for the thread: "stereotypes are just that, stereotypes; it does mean they universally apply, or that all people who like x or y are in a specific way"

As for my top 10: Aside from the podium always being Patchouli, Suika and Yuyuko, the rest of the list is pretty volatile and seems to change every time I do that test.

I agree with the volatility of the test. I have done the sorter three times in my two years of being in the community, and each time the top 10 has been quite interesting. Some things remained the same (like Akyuu and Eiki being constantly in top 5), but others fluctuated quite a lot. Just look at my previous two sorters:

Spoiler

3rd August, 2021

24th February, 2022

25th February, 2023

It sure will be interesting to see what changes might come next year when I will do the sorter again...

 

[CountVonNumenor]

It looks like I have found a fourth breed of "Touhou stereotypes" video, and this one is still fresh (just a bit over a week). So there's more than just Beastmaster Zeman and Suwawako making "Touhou stereotypes" kind of videos...

 

[Canaranjo]

Spoiler

3rd August, 2021



24th February, 2022



25th February, 2023

It sure will be interesting to see what changes might come next year when I will do the sorter again...

Interesting lists. Before Akyuu rose to the top, you were a fan of Myon, huh? Seems like Youmu's popularity never fades. If I recall correctly, she even managed to take the crown in one of the last character popularity polls? I could be mistaken, it has been a couple months since news of that came around and I'm too lazy to verify it at the moment.
Maybe I'll bother to do another sorter and find my previous results, too. That could make for a fun subject.
 

I never really managed to understand where they base the traits of the characters from? As well as for the people who like them. Do they take from canon? Fanon? The author's own wild imagination?

"I made it up. There's no source. It came to me in a dream" ~ Dagoth Ur

Yeah, it starts with a successful video and it just ends with milking the trend. Youtube works in a way to reward consistency above everything else (such is why artists struggle to find success in the platform if they adhere to the mentality of making quality, time consuming works), and it seems suwa's main priority here is to keep his channel and community alive above anything else. Though, by following the example of https://www.youtube.com/@AspreyFM, I think suwawako could use a little more creativity in his most recent posts (admittedly though,asprey doesn't post that often either, so maybe it is unavoidable).

My personal bias against some of this touhou new breed comes with the very idea of new fans getting introduced to an old fandom. It's like you have this beautiful garden, but suddenly, the new hired maids, through no fault of their own, start planting new flowers, pruning the branches you took a liking to, and maybe even removing some of the "uglier" plants, all with only very superficial knowledge of how it came to be many years ago. To your dismay as the old gardener, you can still recognize the garden, but with all of it mischaracterized, shifted to fit a new vision. No fault of their own, of course. How could they know?

And perhaps, in a moment of self reflection, you could even reach the conclusion: Is my way of viewing and treating these characters more valuable than the newer ways just because it was here first, and it borrows from ancient knowledge, now forgotten for the most part?

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Interesting lists. Before Akyuu rose to the top, you were a fan of Myon, huh? Seems like Youmu's popularity never fades. If I recall correctly, she even managed to take the crown in one of the last character popularity polls? I could be mistaken, it has been a couple months since news of that came around and I'm too lazy to verify it at the moment.

Yes, Youmu did win the Popularity Poll in 2021, just like he did one year prior in 2020. The 2021 poll is also the one associated with an alleged fraud that might have placed Myon on top of the charts, even if following a recounting of the votes she was still on top. 

Youmu was my first favorite character in the series, and I have talked about that in the past. Which also explains this comment I made back in the day when I found a certain song from Shinra-Bansho that got stuck into my head for a few days and generated an unreasonable amount of melancholy for my younger self. 

And perhaps, in a moment of self reflection, you could even reach the conclusion: Is my way of viewing and treating these characters more valuable than the newer ways just because it was here first, and it borrows from ancient knowledge, now forgotten for the most part?

Actually a very good question. It makes you think of the fact nothing stays the same, as much as you might try otherwise. Everything evolves or mutates, and I think it is a natural fear of the human for the unknown and uncertain, a wish to remain in familiar territory. In our case, once the thing you used to like evolves beyond your recognition, it becomes sort of a dilemma whether to adapt with the times, or maintain yourself into that little island of familiarity you felt so comfortable in until then. 

 

[TheM3ds]

There's something I never really understood about these Mommy and stereotype videos, like how I don't understand these "what your favorite character" or "thing" says about you kind of content. For I know it could mean absolutely nothing, these kind of videos could just be classified as clickbait (as Canaranjo pointed out) so I don't pay any mind to it. Besides, I haven't watched all the videos by Suwawako so I can't make statement on how I feel about the entire thing other than apathy. As for the meme videos: they were a byproduct of a trend seen within the Touhou community to express there... interests towards the characters. But than it evolved into something more meta but even than it became stale after awhile.

As with alot of memes and videos of Touhou on YouTube it all overstays it's welcome and becomes repetitive and dull. There's no creativity or edge behind them, just memes and shitposting. That isn't to say there can't be fun to be had with making fun of certain fans but unless someone has the courage to do such a thing then I wouldn't get my hopes up (as cynical as that sounds.

That's about it I guess.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

There's something I never really understood about these Mommy and stereotype videos, like how I don't understand these "what your favorite character" or "thing" says about you kind of content. For I know it could mean absolutely nothing, these kind of videos could just be classified as clickbait (as Canaranjo pointed out)

Yeah, Cana made a very good point in regards to that one. 

Besides, I haven't watched all the videos by Suwawako so I can't make statement on how I feel about the entire thing other than apathy.

Interestingly enough, the series from Suwawako seems to be the most balanced out of all. He is not trying to just throw cheap shots at the community members (or insults the characters themselves), and actually goes through pretty much all the content. However, he does miss the point a lot of times, and his associations may be as far as possible from the truth. Therefore, I repeat, why my opening statement about "DISCLAIME: stereotypes are just that, stereotypes; it does mean they universally apply, or that all people who like x or y are in a specific way". To me, Suwawako seems to be a clear response to the lack of content AspreyFM went through for pretty much more than half a year (until the recent revival of his channel, Asprey did not post anything since August, and pretty much every stream since August he was talking about how hard it felt coming back to work - and not because of any issues, but more because he felt lazy). Also let's not talk about channels that we can legally declare dead, such as Surnist (we really miss you :TenshiCry: ). Therefore, why someone else took from there, and tried their own way...

But than it evolved into something more meta but even than it became stale after awhile.

I know about the memes, but I am not very aware/can't make the connection with the meta aspect. Could you please explain it a little bit?

That isn't to say there can't be fun to be had with making fun of certain fans but unless someone has the courage to do such a thing then I wouldn't get my hopes up (as cynical as that sounds.

I have tried that. To some measure, the "horny Touhou fans" trilogy also included some elements of that, just as much as I made some jokes and comments through reviews like the one for Memories of Phantasms. However, I feel like it did not really, work, or maybe I have not expressed it well enough and only caused more ruckus than was needed. But yeah, someone really should be doing that, as I think it is an interesting topic not as much for the idea of calling out people, as for trying to go through a bit of fandom pshychology and social behavior. Or whatever you consider to be more interesting out of this entire issue...

 

[TheM3ds]

I know about the memes, but I am not very aware/can't make the connection with the meta aspect. Could you please explain it a little bit?

I have tried that. To some measure, the "horny Touhou fans" trilogy also included some elements of that, just as much as I made some jokes and comments through reviews like the one for Memories of Phantasms. However, I feel like it did not really, work, or maybe I have not expressed it well enough and only caused more ruckus than was needed. But yeah, someone really should be doing that, as I think it is an interesting topic not as much for the idea of calling out people, as for trying to go through a bit of fandom pshychology and social behavior. Or whatever you consider to be more interesting out of this entire issue...

Apologies for the late reply, I was busy with Labyrinth of Touhou 2 and work.

What I was talking about (If I can remember) was that at a certain point all the "X fans be like" format would be flipped on it's head and instead have jokes that either pokes fun at the characters on the fanon side or just bait and switch.

I think it would be both funny and amusing if there were just people shamming horny Touhou fans on a daily basis, of course I like to make fun of them of well but I don't interact with any, some people are just too weird unfortunately (Could've said it better but eh.)

 

[CountVonNumenor]

It looks like I have found a fourth breed of "Touhou stereotypes" video, and this one is still fresh (just a bit over a week). So there's more than just Beastmaster Zeman and Suwawako making "Touhou stereotypes" kind of videos...

Wow, it seems like this video is no longer available...

 

[CountVonNumenor]

I think it would be both funny and amusing if there were just people shamming horny Touhou fans on a daily basis, of course I like to make fun of them of well but I don't interact with any, some people are just too weird unfortunately (Could've said it better but eh.)

Honestly, I really wonder why people have not done it. Be it in a more serious manner, or just as an actual meme outside the "Mommy"/"Touhou fans be like" format. 

What I was talking about (If I can remember) was that at a certain point all the "X fans be like" format would be flipped on it's head and instead have jokes that either pokes fun at the characters on the fanon side or just bait and switch.

This is just as good, and like I said above, it is quite a shame people are not really interested into creating something out of it - I thin kit actually has potential. Probably the closes thing to it would be the "Canon vs Fanon [Touhou character]" sprite animation series done by lunaPrism.