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What are your opinions on Touhou fans that dont play the games? From a Shmup beginner

Satori Bromeji

Satori Bromeji

Satori Satori Satori and Satori
Recently, I have seen Touhou fans on social media criticize fans who aren't playing the games. Although I do agree on trying to expand the newest fans' knowledge and appreciation of the series. I found the people making the argument to be overblown to the point that I briefly confronted them.

The issues I have are:
1: Underlooks the importance and diversity of other touhou mediums, official and unofficial, in making fans engaged in our beloved series.
2: The term "secondary" and other forms that denounce a person from being a Touhou fan. This is kinda unethical. This will create hostility among fans, and nothing productive will be done.
3: More effort needs to be made to bring people to the Touhou games, and complaining is not enough. That should not be forced upon, but creates authentic interest in playing the games and growing skills in the Bullet Hell genre. New players would also need guides and the community. Guides and communities that already exist now need to be pushed to the eyes of newer fans, or start being made.

I will be pleased to hear about your thoughts on this :3
 
I definitely do think more people should at least give some of the games a try, but I've also noticed a rise in people saying that you need to beat them to even make a start to being considered a Touhou fan. Not only is this outright antagonistic, it also means people are less likely to find out about and enjoy characters like Kasen(!!!!) and Kosuzu who only really have their characters developed in print works.
The main reason Touhou has even had so much longevity since the release of the first game in 1997 is ZUN's "go wild" attitude towards fan-works and other unofficial media. The idea that the official works are the only way of getting into Touhou isn't just not true - it's outright harmful as it stops high effort fan-works from getting as much attention and limelight they deserve, hurting the chances of future fan-works being released, due to lack of attention.
Long story short, the games aren't 100% necessary, and I really like Kasen Ibaraki.
 
Your first and third points were true in my case. Some people aren't going to play the games right away, and even then, it might not be one from the main series.
Touhou caters to a wide variety of interests. To say that any of them are any less valid than the official works is a slap in the face to the creators who poured blood, sweat and tears to their work and it comes across as disingenuous to anyone who might otherwise enjoy these mediums.
Instead of trying to shove the main series down peoples throats, we should be pointing out the alternatives and ask them what their interests are.
That interest will be their gateway into Touhou, igniting the desire to know more.
The more people that know about the best maid in fiction, the better.
 
I think there's a difference between shmups not being your cup of tea, and just larping as a touhou fan. If you at least try to get into them that's fine, but why not go deeper than just "Oh i love the characters and the music."? Try and beat them on any difficulty, any game really. I personally think it's important to at least try and clear one.
LARPing is funny because it gives people an excuse to underlook and downright insult the creative minds that put their efforts into shaping the fanwork scene. There's engaging with the thing you like and just consuming it. Also why the hell would you want to LARP as a touhou fan? that's...kinda sad.
Anyways, my point is that bringing people to Touhou is a very good thing to do, but there has to be some level of interest, otherwise you're left with people who either don't care about it, or worse push their own ideas into the medium and taint the reputation of the general fanbase.
SatoriServant said:
The idea that the official works are the only way of getting into Touhou isn't just not true - it's outright harmful as it stops high effort fan-works from getting as much attention and limelight they deserve, hurting the chances of future fan-works being released, due to lack of attention.
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Touhou is a funny case because it's both big enough for commercial works, yet small enough where the doujin culture is still around so it's more of a case by case situation when the fan creation is either more or less important. Doesn't help that ZUN is a fence sitter at times and would rather give 2 gacha cash grabs (granted the 2nd one is made by CAVE and is JP exclusive...) a chance, say that he "hates it", then look the other way.
Kapi Yakumo said:
The term "secondary" and other forms that denounce a person from being a Touhou fan. This is kinda unethical. This will create hostility among fans, and nothing productive will be done.
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Sometimes you gotta tell someone that their interest is shallow at best, like those fumophiles who make their entire personality about how they have 50 authentic plushies sailed from the land of the rising sun and are in debt because of it.
 
I would completely agree with ya that LARPing and shallowness is massive problem. And it does ruin the outlook of Official and Fan made media.

My main critiques (or me not understanding your ideas) are this. I don't think that only the official games are the only way to build the fans connection to Touhou. Just because some fan creation is either better or not in introducing the franchise. But I do agree with you that quality and importance is case by case. Therefore we as touhou fans should analyze what is important to show to new fans, then bring it to their attention. We already compare which of Zuns games are best for new fans, so we should use the similar judgment for other official, and fan media.

Secondly I will reiterate that shallow engagement is a problem. And you are correct to bring up that some times ya got to speak out. I just want people to understand that when making critiques. Try to be ethical and productive. It will do a better job than what I had witnessed from people before making this thread.

Finally I would like to thank you for your feedback.
 
While I do agree with encouraging new fans to give the games a try, I also understand that bullet hells simply aren't some folks' cup of tea. Great part of the fandom is that they've not only created other genres for those folks who don't like danmaku, but the aforementioned music, literature, and all else Touhou. I've played the games and listened to the music collections, but haven't read a lick of the literature labeled canon by ZUN; Does that make me any less of a fan than someone who hasn't played the games but has done those other things?

That said, it's nuanced just like anything else. Lots of folks claim to be 'Touhou fans' when all they've done is look at the memes and maybe own a bootleg fumo because it was in a funny YouTube video they saw. Type of folks who say that 'Bad Apple!!' is their favorite game track then wonder why it sounds wrong when they hear the PC-98 version. Or those who legitimately think that Eiki Shiki is a breast-envious brat who sends people to hell when they call her short. Or that one out of touch CEO who posted a picture of Kagerou to his social media platform while claiming to be a cat girl.

I think others here have said it better than I ever could, but there's a difference between having a legitimate interest in the series and saying you're a 'Touhou fan' for clout and/or other reasons. Playing the games just seems to be the Litmus test between these two groups as they're the primordial soup the current state of the series arose from. Doesn't mean I agree with it, just the way things are.
 
Shmups aren't my cup of tea personally, though I have tried multiple games from the franchise, older and newer ones both. Simply, I don't like the gameplay loop personally, though I love the music and the world ZUN and the fans have created. Does that make me less of a fan?

Let's take a reverse example: a person loves shmups, but hates the characters and the world ZUN and the fans have created, can he be called a fan?

I don't think so. I'd say that fans love the characters, the world, the music, something unique to the franchise, rather than a gameplay genre.

I think people should try the games, can't really say you dislike something you haven't properly tried, but the mandatory 1cc and all that stuff should stop, as it is just gatekeeping for a silly arbitrary title of "touhou fan".
 
Never, ever categorize Touhou fans; it's a terrifying thing.

Regardless of what people think, STG have clearly passed their golden age, meaning that getting people to understand and play STG is no easy task. (For many, even Normal difficulty is insurmountable)

Touhou isn't just about STG; it's a vast ecosystem encompassing fighting games, comics, novels, music albums, and more... Meanwhile, the bullet hell mechanic has been cleverly incorporated into Doujin creations, which is a kind of positive feedback loop.

I don't think many people first learned about Touhou through STG. Of course, I think some extreme STG players have formed a subculture detached from Touhou, caring little about the game's music or characters, only about achieving higher scores.

Of course, once you feel satisfied with other areas, you might as well try STG then, even if it's just using Thrac.
 
As I always love to say: Touhou has surpassed the games that have originated it. I do not see a reason for touhou fans to play the games if they don't want to. If you are willing to play them then welcome! Make yourself at home and be respectful to other STG's(I've seen many Touhou loyalists needlessly call other STG's very flawed or bad despite uuuuhhh them playing Touhou of all shooters). Just don't expect every single STG player to be nice to you. Touhou games are infamous and not everyone likes it. Rather some even think Touhou games and fans have ruined STG's. I don't really wanna get into this too much cuz its a deep rooted cause that not only touhou players have caused.

As for this:
I have seen Touhou fans on social media criticize fans who aren't playing the games.
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Absolutely retarded thing to gatekeep a fan for liking Touhou and those people should be ignored. It doesn't matter if someone likes Touhou because of music, lore, characters, memes, fumos or god forbid hentai. They are fans in the end because they love the series and its a media conglomerate through and through.

The toxicity in the community almost wants me to tell upcoming players NOT to play Touhou shooters. Rather go to actual pillars of the STG genre and play those instead. But in all honesty some Touhou games are really good for beginners.
 
A fan is somebody who has a strong interest in something, not just people who are in the know and actively involved. Therefore, if you really like any sort of Touhou media, game, song, character; congratulations, you're a Touhou fan.

People who say you need to play the games to completion or something to be a fan just really hate new people. They forgot that they also started somewhere and gotta give the newer new people a chance.
 
Had to search for a bit to find it (too many similarly focused threads), but I recalled commenting on this subject in the past, and rather than restate it preferred to refer back thereto.
Ken Hisuag

Post in thread 'Just a thread where I express my thoughts'

CountVonNumenor said:
what are things that actually count you as a fan,
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I consider this question applied more broadly to other concepts. The Lord of the Rings has a sizable fandom, but some have read all the books, some have only read the original four, and some haven't read any books at all; all are "fans" of the franchise, because their interest is in the concept rather than the material.

I'm a bit of a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. I'm especially fond of the Archie comics continuity, although I've never read any of the comics' material; my experience is limited to second-hand depiction and...
 
i do find it dissappointing that so many fans dont play the games or dont want to for some reason. after all, a huge part of touhou is literally the games. i dont see why you wouldnt want to at least try them. (besides, even if you dont like bullet hell, there are the fighting games)

what i do find weird that some people will do is call those kinds of people "tourists" and like blow up on them and all. while i can see why they are upset nobody wants to play the games, the way they express that is just so... eugh. its just really gives me a bad vibe about them.

i havent really seen anyone say stuff like "if u havent 1cc touhou game ur not a real fan!!!!!" but if that does exist, thats just dumb af. i would say that you have played a touhou game if you at least TRIED doing a run, even if you used all 3 continues or gave up on a game like MoF or sm, if you at least tried playing the game, congrats, you played it.

basically, i'm dissapointed that people dont play the games, but the way people go about it just weird and it doesnt give them a good look.
 
This one's a strange question. People likes dragons even though not always reading books or watching movies about dragons. Touhou by itself has a nice relationship chart between the many characters it feature, and even some religious and folklore elements appearing more than often. The setting can be talked about without knowing anything about the gameplay at all. This genre is one of those that actively ignoring plot in order to set the difficulty at the right place and with the right pace. So you can really go talk all you want about either the games with no knowledge about the settings, or about the setting without ever touching the games. There isn't any mixing between the two anyway.
 
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