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What do You Guys feel about Piracy in Terms of Ethics?

UltimaShojo

UltimaShojo

An Ultimate Bastard...
Since we're on a website that's basically a Touhou Pirate website, I would like to read what are your opinion about piracy.

For me, back then I didn't really care that much and pirated Touhou games with my hearts content, but nowadays I'm somewhat conflicted about it, maybe parts of me says that it's mean to not give money to an indie developer. But hot damn, the prices of the games here on Steam from where I'm from makes outright impossible (they are like 14 bucks more or so from where I'm from)! So, I want to support ZUN, but the prices are the barrier of doing that.
 
The whole concept of piracy was and still is a nothingburger. The argument against it like you said is fair, but when it taken to the extreme like "cuz it's illegal" by corporations like Nintendo as a scare tactic or something ridiculous like how many teenagers are taking a mario party ds video as gospel and when console fanboys trying to defend their multi-billionare $ corporation is when the opposition falls apart.

A notable example is in some of the Hyperdimension Neptunia games, it has piracy as a thematic antagonist. While sometimes it's for the sake of parodying (case in point, the ever first game in the series on PS3), other times it tries to twist it as a message. And the message in question falls apart immediately.
MKII/Rebirth 2 is very notorious and under the nose for this, and it just shows that developers are arrogant when it comes to this subject. Plus, it's story abnd writing aged badly when time goes on.
 
If greed didn't exist or all of these barriers, like @UltimaShojo mentioned. There won't be much of a need to pirate. I think.

If anything, I think piracy gives people who otherwise can't get the game/software by normal means a chance to experience it. And if they choose to support the dev, they purchase or support in other ways.

A good example is myself, lol.

When I first took over the site from ace of arrows, I thought myself "what would be a good platform" so I pirated different ones, tested it and if it met our needs then I purchased the license.
 
Probably shouldn't have divulged all that, now that I think about it. Haha.

Oh well. Cest la vie
 
Certainly, I consider piracy as a gray thing in terms of law, bcs for me, it will depend on what kind of content do you want to pirate, and why do you want to do it xd.
I mean, for example if you pirate a game I wouldn't find it sooo bad if you only want to play it.
But if you do it for another reason (e.g. upload it to a page to sell it to people like an underground steam or smth like that) probably it won't be morally correct...
I got games from free download pages which maybe had pirated them, I confess xd; but I don't think that's completely right nor completely wrong. So I will say it depends on situation when it could be harmless and when it could be not(?
 
discussing ethics and justification for piracy just devolves into shitshows the longer it goes. Companies do anti consumer practices therefore it's justified, pirates are commiting a crime (depending on where you live) therefore its not justified, etc. etc.

thing is we all have our reasons for pirating, being broke, hating the company, it not being illegal where you live, etc. and to some extent they're each valid.
 
Japanese really really hates piracy and as someone from japanese sphere I used to feel guilty about piracy.
nowadays I simply does not care, I don't think downloading files without paying is disrespectful for circles. I simply do it because I want to play game or read doujin.

Most of doujins are left without being scanned, SFW doujins especially aren't easy to find and there are very few of them being uploaded.
I just want people to upload untranslated version of book instead of just english version of book. Since I want to read book in original language.
I really want untranslated version of all official books.
 
I am one of the very few in a position in which piracy does mean lost sales.
That said...
1: Most "content", including anything that calls itself content instead of a game/anime/manga/book/doujin/etc isn't even worth stealing.
2: If something is good, I don't have a problem rewarding the creator for their effort as that's how you get more effort.
In other words, my objection is purely practical. I'd very much like it if more than 1% of everything was worth a damn, and will put my money where my mouth is.
Now if they do something dumb like put a demo behind a paywall, I'm stealing it. And if I have any doubts, I will employ the piracy demo even if no official demo exists. If I can't screen it and suspect at all that I will be doing the opposite and rewarding subversive slop, I just won't touch it. Even with only 1% (mostly Eastern) works being good, I will still run out of natural lifespan before I run out of enjoyable fluffy tails. So, it is their loss and not mine.
 
Piracy allows people with less money to enjoy games, songs, and other sorts of content. Some lads just don't have the extra bucks to purchase games (or would need to make big sacrifices for something that's not quite worth it). So I think that, Ethically, piracy can be okay depending on your situation (pirating for greed because you don't want to spend a single penny of your fortune would be unethical).

I use to buy games I pirated if I liked them, because it's supporting the developers for something I honestly enjoyed. But some games are just not worth it (big prices and/or bad games). And I know pretty much all devs use blood and sweat to create their games over a lot of time, but as a client I'm more concerned with the quality of the end-product rather than the procedures it had to be made.

Does it means they've lost sales? Yes. I'm not sure how much, but I honestly think the good part of piracy (accessibility) overshadows this. There are honest people to counter-balance the dishonest ones (but again, I'm not sure how many, lol).

All things considered, I'm still pro-piracy. It brings joy to less-fortunate people and that can be rather noble depending on the way you do it.
And a funny thought someone shared with me: "If purchase doesn't mean owning, then piracy isn't stealing."
 
Just because I originally pirated some games does not mean I don't buy them. I still buy them on Steam and console versions to support the developers and hope for future games. My reasoning for piracy is TRYING before buying. If I don't like the game, I wont buy it. If I do, or if I like something like the music or the developer's, I buy the game. I want to be able to try something for as LONG as I like and not what some platform says is the amount of time I can play until I'm not eligible for a refund on the games purchase.

This is just my reasoning. But I feel like its a fair one to have.

Side note: A lot of JP games that are NOT on Steam are often sold on hard to navigate JP websites and often times I have had issues with my bank and my card going through on purchases. Not something I was ever fond of doing myself.
 
Tbh, I could see why some of y'all are into piracy, due to regional blocking, insane prices, etc. etc.
Nitorium said:
If greed didn't exist or all of these barriers, there won't be much of a need to pirate. I think.
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And you, Nitorium, said something that basically is the reason why piracy exists.

But in some cases, I believe due to horrible regional prices (may God have mercy upon you if you live in 3rd world countries) is also part of the reason why piracy exists. Let's say for example, you wanna buy Fate/Stay Night REMASTERED on Steam and you live in the Philippines. Guess what buckaroo, it's 910 pesos. That's more expensive than it's in America ($29.99). I mean the hell? That's way too expensive for a game.

And even if the developers/publishers try to make their game cheap; in another country that's more unfortunate, it would become expensive. So, not only greed is the reason why piracy happens, but also because of stupid regional price exchanges.
 
i dont really care about whether people pirate or not, but i think that it becomes 100% okay to pirate if its borderline impossible to obtain a piece of media at that point. for example, the pc 98 games. they have to be played specifically on pc 98, and even if you got that, you gotta get the games themselves, which i think is impossible at this point because i've barely ever seen people sell them, and when i have, they were thousands of dollars. besides, they probably wont even work anymore. i have heard about the disk with all 5 games on there, but ive only ever saw it on sale once for around 30000.

point is, you pretty much cant get the games without pirating it, and thats when i think its 100% alright to do it. basically that percentage goes down the more commonly available it is. ultimately, im not gonna really think someone is a bad person for pirating, though.
 
UltimaShojo said:
Tbh, I could see why some of y'all are into piracy, due to regional blocking, insane prices, etc. etc.

And you, Nitorium, said something that basically is the reason why piracy exists.

But in some cases, I believe due to horrible regional prices (may God have mercy upon you if you live in 3rd world countries) is also part of the reason why piracy exists. Let's say for example, you wanna buy Fate/Stay Night REMASTERED on Steam and you live in the Philippines. Guess what buckaroo, it's 910 pesos. That's more expensive than it's in America ($29.99). I mean the hell? That's way too expensive for a game.

And even if the developers/publishers try to make their game cheap; in another country that's more unfortunate, it would become expensive. So, not only greed is the reason why piracy happens, but also because of stupid regional price exchanges.
Click to expand...
Now you got me concerned about Gaben because bro's single handedly making me able to get games legally lol. just grabbed gungeon for 1$ this spring despite having full cleared it before. whee.
 
I struggle with the affordability argument, because in most cases where piracy applies the products involved are non-essential; I can live without it, so if the relevant owners of the product are charging more than I believe it's worth (or simply more than I'm willing to pay regardless), shouldn't my default perspective be "guess I can't have it then" and move on? For example: I don't care how good some of the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 games may be, I have no intention of paying upwards of $90 for them. But that doesn't mean I'm going to pirate them; I'm just not going to play them at all. Even disregarding the multitude of alternative products with far better pricing (Hollow Knight is $15 at full price and often goes on sale), there are other things I can do with my life in lieu of playing video games.

That being said, I regularly pirate music (that's what brought me here, after all); I've even contributed to providing pirated albums in the past. To be fair, I do usually restrict myself to things that are literally impossible (or unreasonably impractical) to acquire otherwise. There have been times when I've temporarily pirated a soundtrack that was available for purchase but did not have a means of preview; this is usually born out of paranoia, and I often will purchase it later anyway. Yet given my own argument concerning non-essentials, I sometimes doubt the validity of my own justifications. Theoretically piracy is a form of theft, where ownership is attained without compensation to the provider. But I feel there are a multitude of nuances to the modern practice, mostly contingent upon two primary points: first, modern piracy is almost always concerned with digital products, which have little to no manufacturing value, thus minimizing any potential loss; second, modern piracy is primarily focused on products difficult to obtain "legally," potentially shifting consideration away from the act itself.

Ultimately, any concern I have with the practice is restricted to those who openly exercise it despite having alternative means, and even then I hesitate to assume the worst. I would encourage legal acquisition first, and abstinence second, but I acknowledge there are some cases that seem justifiable, even if I'm not completely confident of the degree thereof.
 
Ken Hisuag said:
I struggle with the affordability argument, because in most cases where piracy applies the products involved are non-essential; I can live without it, so if the relevant owners of the product are charging more than I believe it's worth (or simply more than I'm willing to pay regardless), shouldn't my default perspective be "guess I can't have it then" and move on? For example: I don't care how good some of the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 games may be, I have no intention of paying upwards of $90 for them. But that doesn't mean I'm going to pirate them; I'm just not going to play them at all. Even disregarding the multitude of alternative products with far better pricing (Hollow Knight is $15 at full price and often goes on sale), there are other things I can do with my life in lieu of playing video games.
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Back then it was somewhat harder to purchase a game due to limited payment options. Now we have Gift Cards hanging at market gondolas that weakens my point regarding accessibility. Most kids with some spare money can get credits for Steam and other platforms and do it on the ethical way without having parental control as an factor.

To me your point is valid to the most extent. If we are talking about someone who doesn't have control of their finances and struggles to put $20 at their Steam Wallet, I'd say piracy is mostly valid.
They could indeed be doing something else, but some people just really enjoy gaming instead. As you said, it's a non-essential thing in their lives, but even so it sparks some glow in their life that they might not have otherwise.
Using the Switch example for a bit: I myself don't own a Switch and I don't pirate their games because I simply do not wish to play them, but if it was for a kid who can't buy one and really wished to play their games I'd be 100% fine with them using an emulator (assuming it would work on their PC's/notebooks, of course).

Yet if the person is fully capable of getting income by their own and pirate things because they want to save some money they could use somewhere else, then it would be unethical in my eyes. The only exception would be if you want to test the game before actually purchasing it or not as an sort of "involuntary trial" if it's not provided by the publisher.
And if some piece of media is extremely difficult or just impossible to obtain, piracy is not only "okay" but it's almost a duty, lol. Preserving the pretty pearls is a commendable thing to do.

And on a totally unrelated note, your English is formidable and I gotta improve mine.
 
Ken Hisuag said:
I struggle with the affordability argument, because in most cases where piracy applies the products involved are non-essential; I can live without it, so if the relevant owners of the product are charging more than I believe it's worth (or simply more than I'm willing to pay regardless), shouldn't my default perspective be "guess I can't have it then" and move on? For example: I don't care how good some of the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 games may be, I have no intention of paying upwards of $90 for them. But that doesn't mean I'm going to pirate them; I'm just not going to play them at all. Even disregarding the multitude of alternative products with far better pricing (Hollow Knight is $15 at full price and often goes on sale), there are other things I can do with my life in lieu of playing video games.

That being said, I regularly pirate music (that's what brought me here, after all); I've even contributed to providing pirated albums in the past. To be fair, I do usually restrict myself to things that are literally impossible (or unreasonably impractical) to acquire otherwise. There have been times when I've temporarily pirated a soundtrack that was available for purchase but did not have a means of preview; this is usually born out of paranoia, and I often will purchase it later anyway. Yet given my own argument concerning non-essentials, I sometimes doubt the validity of my own justifications. Theoretically piracy is a form of theft, where ownership is attained without compensation to the provider. But I feel there are a multitude of nuances to the modern practice, mostly contingent upon two primary points: first, modern piracy is almost always concerned with digital products, which have little to no manufacturing value, thus minimizing any potential loss; second, modern piracy is primarily focused on products difficult to obtain "legally," potentially shifting consideration away from the act itself.

Ultimately, any concern I have with the practice is restricted to those who openly exercise it despite having alternative means, and even then I hesitate to assume the worst. I would encourage legal acquisition first, and abstinence second, but I acknowledge there are some cases that seem justifiable, even if I'm not completely confident of the degree thereof.
Click to expand...
My going theory is that the reason why there is less or no emulation for newer consoles even though they are more PC like and thus can be more easily emulated is because no one cares.
Most of them will come out on PC eventually (and be pirated at that point) and the ones that don't will likely be lost.
Take Demon Gaze 2. It's not on PC, there's no non scammy PS4 emulators. There's one Vita emulator which works with slightly over half of games supposedly including some versions of DG2. But it crashes partway through the installation process with no error message. Effectively, it's a dead game since the original systems shut down their online services after a few years.
With music, the scenario is a bit different. If you downloaded every song they ever produced and then gave them a McChicken they'd come out ahead when compared with someone buying all the songs normally. You aren't stealing from the artist, but from the various grifters attached. No problem here.
 
Honestly, neutral when it comes to piracy. But, if i liked the product, then i make sure to support it's creator.
Hell, i actually have discovered quite a lot of great games through the piracy, and the piracy itself have introduced me to beautiful world of PC gaming on a old intel atom n570 netbook...
 
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