Is Touhou ready for new fans?

[CountVonNumenor]

This is another one of those threads in which I am asking for digression and common sense. Originally, the thread has been posted on r/touhou, and there it turned into bait for gatekeepers, and the thread itself was closed to new comments. I hope things will go better in here. For reading the origina discussion on this topic and its reactions, it can be found here 



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[SIZE=12pt]Sounds like a stupid question, but it actually makes a bit of sense seeing recent reactions. Touhou, for a long time, has been both a huge element of internet culture, and anonymous compared to other series, most likely coming from the fact Touhou belongs to a niche game genre (Shmup). I mean it is quite remarkable that after more than 20 years, our community is still alive and not giving any signs it might die very soon as content is still being done, either official or fan materials.[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=12pt]In the one year since I've been a fan of the series (coming from a rather unexpected area of the world - Eastern Europe), I have noticed one trend. Whenever anything Touhou-related makes its way into a more famous or vocal place online, people get concerned. And their concern comes from the fact they do not really want new people join in or the fandom becoming too big due to the potential for bad.[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=12pt]Is this kind of fear justified, or we should be opened to anyone new? My opinion is that gatekeeping is not really a good idea, as fandoms need fresh blood in order to live. But at the same time, I can see a bit of the weariness around the idea of new masses of people entering the fandom with various intents, especially those that I've seen being referred to as "normies" or "stans" or however they like to call those people. Touhou has been a niche thing, so I guess there is/was some appeal in that?[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=12pt]I do not think we are getting into a dark age or the death of this fandom, as some of those against new people entering the series would say. Indeed, we are no longer in the golden age of 2009-2012, but still it is not so bad nowadays. More people also represents the potential for more good stuff being created, not just bad[/SIZE]

 

[nhatduongtouhou2]

I think Touhou's gatekeepers are inevitable. Touhou is a longstanding franchise, with 1 dev making games for the passion (drinking beer), comfortable in doujin. but getting entangled in so many fandom dramas in a weird way??? I hate that. I always cherish LORD ZUN and Touhou official. I always want to destroy anyone who wants to hurt my paradise?

 

[White L]

I do think it's ready for new fans, but its kinda hard to avoid gatekeepers. The current fanbase needs people like the ones who introduced me to the entire series.

Simply put, we just need to tell them their options on what this fandom has to offer and reply accordingly to what they need, all of this before the gatekeepers shame them for just entering.

 

[Tenkko]

Yeah gatekeepers are everywhere and they will always come up with reasons for why any kind of fan is bad (you don't play the games; you don't read the print works; too much fanon; too much canon etc). Which is dumb. That's why you see this whole idea of avoiding the bigger fandom and just, getting into smaller communities.

But yeah Touhou's always bringing in new fans and I think it's a great thing.

(although i do think everyone should play a game at least once but, hey up to them)

 

[Ken Hisuag]

It is said that people may come in mass into a franchise, act more or less interested in the actual materials, and if they get bored, just do not stick and leave after a while. Those who actually get interested remain, with a higher chance to bring a positive contribution to the community.

I can't speak to the community at large, and indeed I'm not sure anyone can; a fandom, by its nature, has many sides and parts of which it is highly unlikely any single person may be a part of. But as for Moriya Shrine, the above statement sums up my observations. A new name appears in the forums, sticks around for a couple months without doing or saying anything specific to interests, and then goes idle. Those that do display specific interests tend to stick around, interacting with others in context of those interests. With that in mind, I'm not sure it matters too much whether we consider the community of Touhou to be "ready" for newcomers or not; if they come, they come.

To be fair, however, I'm not really familiar with the process of gatekeeping. My tendency is to be a passive participant, and I suspect gatekeepers are more concerned with interactive types. That being said, I refer to my earlier estimation of the "fandom" as a multi-faceted phenomena; if the door is closed in one part, there is likely a window open elsewhere. Potentially, the closing of windows may encourage the creation of new ones (a site like this has to start somewhere, right?). Granted this is heavily speculative, but it hopefully conveys an encouraging perspective.

FTR, I appreciate it when people do stick around, whatever the reason.

 

[TheM3ds]

With a series as large as Touhou I honestly think there are plenty of things anyone can jump into while trying to get familiar with the characters, lore, music ETC. But with that said I think it has less to do with if this series is ready for new fans and more with "How willing are old fans/doujin makers to guide new fans without having to cause a scene" or something like that.

As long as gatekeeping (or elitism) doesn't get in the way of too many things it should be fine unless they're really stingy...

Since Touhou is really big on the internet it will only continue to attract new people in some way and that's okay.

 

[Drunken_Flower]

Gensokyo accepts all
whether it's good or bad

although it's nice if we can rule out the bad one

also about gatekeeping, i perceive it differently from elitism
basically imagine gatekeeping is like a meiling "ey you what'cha doin? dont wreak havoc in here, respect the others pls", think as moderation.
follow the guidelines https://touhou-project.news/guidelines_en/ the guidelines mainly is for distributed works but we still use them regularly.
high emphasis on the 1st rule and you're fine

elitism for me is taking it to the extreme
"Hi, your opinion on XXX does not match the canon description of said thing, please reconsider your status"
"i see that you're not a 'true fan' of Touhou"
it such a BS

im only here for the musik and art, didnt really touch doujin or main games or even fan games and im fine ?

ya see the difference?
it has quite vague borders, that's why there's a lot of controversies about it.
but if you think about it it makes sense.
it is hard to keep freedom as free as possible without it falling into anarchy.

if you reading this and think that im a gatekeeper
well yes then i am

also i believe in this image, show it to anyone who opposes you.

 

[TheM3ds]

Gensokyo accepts all
whether it's good or bad

although it's nice if we can rule out the bad one

also about gatekeeping, i perceive it differently from elitism
basically imagine gatekeeping is like a meiling "ey you what'cha doin? dont wreak havoc in here, respect the others pls", think as moderation.

elitism for me is taking it to the extreme
"Hi, your opinion on XXX does not match the canon description of said thing, please reconsider your status"
"i see that you're not a 'true fan' of Touhou"
it such a BS
im only here for the musik and art, didnt really touch doujin or main games or even fan games and im fine ?

ya see the difference?
it has quite vague borders, that's why there's a lot of controversies about it.
but if you think about it it makes sense.
it is hard to keep freedom as free as possible without it falling into anarchy.

Duly noted, Drunken_Flower.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Gensokyo accepts all
whether it's good or bad

although it's nice if we can rule out the bad one

also about gatekeeping, i perceive it differently from elitism
basically imagine gatekeeping is like a meiling "ey you what'cha doin? dont wreak havoc in here, respect the others pls", think as moderation.
follow the guidelines https://touhou-project.news/guidelines_en/ the guidelines mainly is for distributed works but we still use them regularly.
high emphasis on the 1st rule and you're fine

elitism for me is taking it to the extreme
"Hi, your opinion on XXX does not match the canon description of said thing, please reconsider your status"
"i see that you're not a 'true fan' of Touhou"
it such a BS
im only here for the musik and art, didnt really touch doujin or main games or even fan games and im fine ?

ya see the difference?
it has quite vague borders, that's why there's a lot of controversies about it.
but if you think about it it makes sense.
it is hard to keep freedom as free as possible without it falling into anarchy.

if you reading this and think that im a gatekeeper
well yes then i am

also i believe in this image, show it to anyone who opposes you.

I especially love that little comic strip you have inserted at the end of the post. Somehow, it reminds me quite a lot of this comment I once saw on Reddit:

Touhou's meta is participatory. The "fanon" gives the characters a life of their own.

Frankly the modern "worldbuilding" method where you have one copyright and the copyright owner gets to from on high decide what is and isn't canon is a modern aberration.

​

Think of it like the ancient mythologies. We'll pick on the Greek pantheon. Well back then there was no Disney corporation which decided how those myths went. It was a bunch of individual story tellers each with their own stories, and over time the good stories would be repeated and the bad stories forgotten. Stories of the characters interacting with other characters would be told and thus a "world" was built. There was no one author who decided Hercules had X, Y, Z character traits and performed A, B, C feats. So for all we know the myth started with some strong guy in a bit role told by storyteller A, who storyteller B co-opted into another much more interesting story.

Touhou, though technically a modern copywritten material, works a lot closer to the ancient model.

Source: 

 

[Tenkko]

always thought of Touhou as this sandbox where everyone just kinda does whatever they want. some say "if an interpretation gets popular it ruins the actual image of a character" but, everyone willing to actually look into the series will quickly learn that is just not true. and if they still like it after that hey, whatever works for them.

but also with elitism it's always like this

Spoiler

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[CountVonNumenor]

Oh, please remind me to come back in the morning with a fresh topic. It will also contain something related to the very thing you have mentioned

 

[Macbeth]

To be fair, I never really noticed that much elitism in the touhou fanbase. But I dont browse reddit so maybe there is a bunch of stuff going there I am not aware about. I just play 2hu games, 2hu flashes and watch 2hu vids and Ill share them with my bros who also like 2hu. I never really witnessed anyone try to gatekeep what I liked or anything except for one time this guy I knew threw a bit of a fit about me posting Walfas at a discord server he was in as well

 

[CountVonNumenor]

Seeing that the video I have linked in my newest thread has attracted so much interest, I will put a similar question, but from a different angle:

What is the state of the Touhou fandom (Japan and rest of the world) now, in early 2022?

I really like the idea behinvideo, but I think he should have also addressed the state of the fandom itself, or at least should do  follow-up to the original video. Especially since the fandom is such an important part of what kept Touhou alive for so long, maybe even more than anything ZUN himself has created in terms of official material. 

 

[_.Mevs]

Well, as a new fan, i have to tell, in the start i didn't have a really good vision of the community since i saw a lot of sexual content out there.

But, when i joined the forum, i saw how touhou community is amazing actually, everyone i saw here treated me really well and everyone was really nice to me =D

I surely have more to learn, both about the game and the community, but from what i know now, i love everything about it!

I'd say, it is ready, but for people that are actual interested into it and look more into talking to other fans, play the games and join communities!

The only trouble i had was mostly to understand touhou itself, i watched several videos about and played several games, i still have much to learn but already know some nice stuff about the game and the community that make me like it even more =D

I'm also grateful since thanks to it i'm being able to ignore some of the bad stuff in my life, even if for some minutes or hours, so, yeah, thank you everyone for the amazing experiences i have with this amazing universe and forum =)

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