Leaderboard

I think we should have a good talk about this topic. I have had a lot of thinking about this topic for a long time. Recent twits by nmlgc and aggressive2hu inspired me to do more research to finally build a full picture. I understood that we should act now until it is too late. The more info I found for this post, the worse the situation became. And it is not just about Touhou, problems are much more serious, but mostly I will talk about Touhou because I really love Touhou and I hope to change situation for better at least for Touhou. The goal of this post is not to bring hate towards anybody in the fandom or ZUN, but to help people understand the roots of the problems to resolve them. CAUTION!! CAUTION!! CAUTION!! If you still want to believe that there are no serious problems in Touhou fandom, and still want to believe in Touhou and doujin magic, well this post may bring you down. You have been warned. CAUTION!! CAUTION!! CAUTION!! Before we start, I hope to see criticism which will explain where I am right and where I am wrong, because this topic is rarely discussed. Thank you. Have you noticed that something is not right? Have you noticed that there are much less new Touhou fangames, doujinshi and doujin music than for example 8 years ago? Have you noticed that a lot of new fan content is nearly unnoticed? Have you noticed that fandom is not united and split? Have you noticed that last Touhou games are rushed and story is less well-written? Doujin events examples: I suppose that everyone noticed at least some of those problems but I am surprised that nearly nobody tried to analyse why these have happened. Well, there are two main causes of the problems: the fandom and the franchise itself. Fandom: But there are other problems that may make people haters of not just fandom, but of Touhou itself. Franchise: But what I can say for sure if this topic is unnoticed and left undiscussed we won't be able to change the situation for better. I thought that Touhou was an islet of safety in current sea of crisis of mass culture, but alas it is already under the water. But wait, let's be clever and take a step further (unlike those haters): what about non-Touhou doujin scene, what is happening there? (Spoiler: the situation is similar there): But everything is not lost! We can change the situation for better if we will stop being scattered and will work together. The worst thing now is just giving up. Thank you for reading this. I would be really glad to receive criticism, corrections and proposals. I know this topic is controversial, but I think that it must be discussed. I just want Touhou fandom to become better. If you have any good ideas how to change the whole situation for better feel free to share them. Also feel free to share this post. There are also some other related thoughts about this topic: Afterwords: If after reading this post you want to hate ZUN or anybody else then I think you didn't understand this post. This post shows that hate didn't change the situation for better and only made it worse. We don't need to hate, We need to act. For the fans who are Still with us.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, Touhou fandom has not fallen yet, and the more people will be aware of those problems the more chances we have to make Touhou fandom blooming again. Sadly, yes. Because this is a pirate site, and after DMCA /r/touhou and Touhou Wiki decided to support Ruw's decision. There is even a group who wrote doujin circles to help them with DMCA. They even created hakureishrine.org (it is just redirect to Steam, and yes they still pay for this domain just for joke). Thank you too, for your reply. You understood it correctly. Just one more detail, there were dramas between main Touhou websites even between main websites. Not only that but also some strange limitations from ZUN and Ruw. You understood it correctly. Somewhat yes. The first solution also include forgetting about dramas at least between creators, so they could work together. Those are just my proposals and they maybe not ideal. I want to bring up this topic for discussion to find the best solution from realistic ones. Thank you for your reply. I also think that persuading ZUN now is nearly impossible. Touhou is mostly made for Japanese fans and ZUN mostly listen only to them, so without their help it would be impossible to do it. I understand it, but I don't have better solutions for now, I am sorry.

Mmmm, this topic has been something of a long time brewing, hasn't it? 1.) General groundworks, fanbase fragmentation 2.) ZUN himself and franchising 3.) Doesn't he only interact with his JP fans? I'm gonna stop here for now and let this thread build up. I'm interested in seeing how this develops as it has been some time since something like this captured my attention.

That would be near impossible. Most Fandom/Community/Whatever attempts at making a company (although you can hardly call Team Shanghai Alice a "company" as it is just one person, but I didn't have any other term to use here) notice them fail.One example I can think of is #Savetf2, which ended with TF2 team responding with a tweet and then returning to radio silence. Although because we aren't dealing with an AAA company here, we have higher chances of well.... I guess you can say "speaking up"? However the issue is that we probably would need at least a pretty sizeable minority with us and a way of persuading and forcing ZUN to stop working with Ruw, however the second part would be much easier to deal with. Other than that I'm also quite pessmistic towards other solutions, however I don't know why as I can't really explain it. It might just be a gut-feeling though. Also I apologize if I misunderstood something or didn't read something.

You've... scrambled my brain. I don't know what to say. At first I just want to get clarification on your main points, because honestly, your post is huge. Is this interpretation correct? -Problem1: Bigger websites (discord, facebook, etc.) get more popular -> fans leave main touhou websites -> fans are in smaller divided circles (ex: discord servers) -> more divide/drama -Problem2: Touhou getting enfranchised -> lower effort games -> more negativity towards the series -Outcome: Combining outcomes of problems 1 & 2 -> harder for newcomers to get in -> less fans -> entire fanbase begins to degrade (fanworks and events) -Solution: Everybody going back to centralized touhou websites OR creating a huge website list containing all fan circles I'm really not too sure if I understood everything. Please let me know if I misunderstood anything.

i'm impressed with your analysis. Well, I understand the pessimism and all of the unfortunate situations, but I still believe that touhou fandom have not yet fallen. I can't be considered an avid touhou fan (i entered the fandom 1 year and a half ago) but i guess we still have a chance, but, knowing how things happen, it's very unlikely that it'll occur (at least based on the fandom actions themselves, cited by you). Anyway, great point being brought here (i'm sure most people won't even read the first lines) and thanks for making me(us) aware of the whole thing. and also, for some reason it hadn't yet sunk in for me that we are considered the black sheep of the fandom

Very cool topic! I read through most of the other replies, and I think you all have amazing ideas :) I especially love that idea, ReisenFanatic :D Feels like so many games these days are about violence so that sounds cool. Me personally, I always wanted to make a big open world game (map is like 2 km wide) in which there is no real objective except survival. You get to start at a human village, and try to make friends or enemies or whatever. I am thinking about a HUGE emphasis on npcs that adapt to the environment. For example if you help out certain people, their enemies start to hate you. Or if crop yields are getting low, villagers start blaming each other. You can even spread rumors that people may or may not believe! It's probably nearly impossible to make such a complicated system, but I like to imagine :) Anyways, the character and settings. Since I only play touhou 4, the main character is mountain youkai Orange. She might pass as a human to most, but needs to be a bit careful near people like Reimu. Overall nobody is really hostile at the start, but environmental factors (famines, rain, earthquakes), player interactions, and npc actions slowly shape relationships. It all depends how you react. You could be a helpful person that is friends with everybody. You could be a secret murderer that the police keep struggling to catch. It's your game, your world, your life! Writing this during class so I might be making no sense right now hehe. Thanks again Yumetou for the interesting question :P

Thank you for your opinion. I am grad to see criticism of my post. I understand that we may not to care about the state of Touhou and just watch what will happen next. I understand that internet and fandoms are just part (a small one) of our real lives. I understand that if something bad happens to franchise we can move to next one. I understand that this site is not that big and not many people visit forums here. But for some reason Touhou became something important for me. And it would be sad for me if this series would die. I am a little guy, and literally noname outside of this forum. I cannot do anything big alone, but I thought that doing a small step for changing the situation for better is better than doing nothing at lot. I hope that this discussion won't just stay in this "little circle" and would go upper (but for now it is just hope). Yes, I understand that I cannot change the situation alone greatly. I made some purposes which aren't too realistic, the others are somewhat more achievable. What is it? I still cannot describe it. Maybe a hope that after this little step there would be more bigger steps. Maybe stupidity. Maybe I am just overthinking everything. Who knows? And again, thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it.

Counter Point: Is the state of the fandom at any time, past current or future, necessarily concerning? What is the actual impact on you or me if this state of affairs continues or gets "worse?" I've been around a while now, and I've seen many fluctuations in the little "circle" we have here. I don't always appreciate them, but they don't bother me overly much; ultimately, my life is not going to be effected by what's happening here. Touhou is the reason I came here, but it isn't really the reason I'm still here now, and it was never going to be. My "About Me" page is forever invisible (why does this exist I don't understand it's been years), but if y'all could see it you'd see a description of what I believe defined my priorities in regard to my interactions: Bible believer Music enthusiast Amateur meme propagator That's me (although I may not live up to the last one anymore), and whatever happens to Touhou and its fandom isn't going to change that. I get the impression you want something out of the fandom that you don't believe you can get in its current state. What is it?

Its like you said, we're past the golden age of touhou. We are no longer in a time where touhou was as internet culturally relevant anymore. That unfortunately happens to a lot of series that are really popular on the internet. However I think we are far from dead, I think right now we are in a time where Touhou is giving rise to successors but it isn't being shown to the public more because its successors are more popular and good for them. To me, the touhou community is like the Classic Doom Community, even though its golden age has long past its community is still thriving. There are still people out there creating WAD's for Classic Doom and just like how people are still creating things for touhou. Both of these series still have boost of popularity with My house for Doom and Luna Nights for touhou (That was the game that got me into the franchise in the first place). We are just passing the torch to a new generation and as far as I see it, this new generation is doing well at keeping it lit.

Thank you for your reply. I am grad you liked this post and and I would be grad for your analysis. I have read most of your threads before I created an account here. You really made great analysis there. Thank you for your reply. I agree that uniting all the fans nearly impossible now. So I purposed a little more realistic solutuon (only unite creators). I didn't thought about a language factor, a really good point (but from what I know that is not that big problem in other fandoms. Mostly agree. I hope correctly understood the second part. I don't think the age is not a serious problem I think, because if the series is really good there would be fans even after 50 years. But yes, newer Touhou games are very different from older ones (not everyone likes it, but for me it is okey if they are made well). Also kind of ironic that ZUN wanted to create a shmup for PC98 which had way more bullets than Caves shmups. Agree with everything. Agree with everything. Yes, it is a big problem. That is one of the main reasons why fans leave the fandom. Yes, you are right. He also knows about Chinese community, because he visited China and met Touhou fans there. (Am I the only one who has strange feelings about this video? Agree with all. And that is a problem that they are that used to gachas. I thought that was obvious: mostly thwiki.cc Comiket: https://thwiki.cc/Comic_Market Reitaisai: https://thwiki.cc/Reitaisai Kouroumu: https://thwiki.cc/东方红楼梦 Meikasai: https://thwiki.cc/东方名华祭 Autumn Reitaisai: https://thwiki.cc/博丽神社秋季例大祭 Hakudenkai 2022: https://extra.hakudenkai.games Hakudenkai 2023: https://hakudenkai.games/ Again, thank you for your interesting thoughts.

should i achieve world domination? >:D

an educational game featuring well-known touhou OCs (apple girl + half human half kappa half unoriginal) and unused and not well known 2hus (rin satsuki, yatsuhashi...) the game is a platformer, shooter, quiz game, rhythm game amalgamation-whatever (just like most edutainement stuff), it's kinda long and it teaches morals (like good manners, empathy, being yourself...) by first having dialogue, then the gamplay, then repeat the last steps differently (because the world is complex!) and finally a quiz and A REALLY CATCHY SONG!!!!!! it's gonna be called "rin moves to mysteryland!" because why not slip in a touhou 4kids patch reference? and eventually, it's gonna be for toddlers who just got to school and (i really love this) *fake cough* PRETEENS!!!!! BECAUSE THEY NEED A LITTLE REVIEW OF THEIR LESSONS (if you know what i mean)!!!!!! and if that actually exists, send me a link. it's for... research purposes. i love edutainement games.

I have two usernames and you can find them all over the internet if you try hard enough. Banana Man came from when I had lost my original account to some website way back then, Couldn't think of a good replacement, I legit just looked at the two things I saw and put them together (I was super close to putting Banana Wolverine until I decided that Banana Man was way funnier). Halo4577 is my really old xbox username I had used back during the 360 Era. I don't use it as often on websites as much as I use them on game platforms.

It's been a long time since I have last been truly active on this forum, but I am greatly impressed to see again big threads, with a lot of interesting stuff to read and research put into it. This thread actually reminds me of something I wrote at the end of 2022, when I was a about halfway into my journey for getting into Touhou (link below, along with some bonuses). I would like to reply to multiple of the points made, but that would take me about an hour, so I will try get back to this later (it's already late in the night for me). However, you have earned my respect. The thread I originally mentioned: Bonus threads of potential interest (chronologically, by release date): (a personal topic of interest back then) (from the era of "Count reviews stuff") (another topic of personal interest back then; oh, how the fate has turned since...) (and a thread that is still going, albeit by me reviving it every once in a while; provides good example of evolving perception on a topic by regularly covering it and noticing patterns of approach and way to present the issue) Alright, I will try to come back eventually with the promised reply. Until then, enjoy the lecture =) Edit: I forgot to add one thread that did waves back in the day, both here on the Moriya Shrine forum and on r/touhou, due to how dense I used to be in trying to understand why something was as appealing and prevalent as it is (and I still do not fully know too, especially as I dropped the consumption of such stuff for good, and for my own good)

estuve aquí yay

i just created it myself :)

Doki Doki Literature Club is one of my favorite games. It belongs to the meta horror genre (thank you that video for letting me know what genre these games belong to), basically just 4th wall breaking stuff. You think I'm gonna share DDLC ost right? WRONG. This is gonna be about Irisu Syndrome, which is a game that the creator of DDLC even said to be his inspiration while making DDLC. Irisu Syndrome is also one of my favorite game, the deep layered story (how I feel) makes me relate to it. It's a puzzle game with falling blocks that you shoot at, and the music accompany with it is relaxing AND very good....and sad? Sometimes sad I guess. But yeah this game is apparently the first meta horror game. The whole soundtrack is awesome. Kinda wanna add the last song with the last timestamp from the vid tho, but it kinda spoils a bit because of the theme and whatnot. Oh well....too much trouble....whatever... (reference from the game lol)

WASSUP MORIYA SHRINE!!! IS YOUR FAV DEVIL- okay cut the yt intro, welcome to a new AMA!!! yup, ask away like the previous one! :D (same rules apply here; no personal questions)

do you ever feel out of place like you cant fit in

do it >:D totally not watching you while you sl- (jk just seeing if you’re worth getting a lecture from eiki) just being a familiar, im not a yandere i swear-

are you gay af with patchouli because it's a familiar thing or do you just like her

what are you doing hiding on my closet it's scaring me at night

never actually heard of them until you changed your display so really no, but maybe i will idk great question, i just sit on my bed and stare at the endless void questioning if its even wort- or just talk on discord or moriya shrine either eosd, pcb, pofv, sa, swr, hisoutensoku, or lolk

fav t2h2 game in the series?

how do you cope wit loneliness

do you fw with black kray?

why koakuma? because koakuma

why koakuma

What do you think is the best lead instrument used in touhou songs, and also give examples of it being used! Actually I'm not sure if you can respond to a poll For me I would probably go with piano, because most of my favorite themes use it (beloved tomboyish girl, alice in wonderland, etc.). But damn Raiko's theme makes me want to choose drums

as i’m koakuma, it couldn’t be even more obvious from here (YOUKAI DEVIL-) though besides her, i would like to be a celestial similar to tenshi imo (woulda never thought a devil and a celestial could go together)

New fav touhou theme

And the winner is...Flandre is gooboo. Sorry, executive decision. The runner-up though, Flan is a loving but playful little sister. Humanity has hope after all. Next Bad Touhou Opinion! "Hey, mister..." = "Do you want to have sex?" = "Yo man. Fuck?" = "Do you want to have Fumo?" = "Do you want to eating hamburgah and potato everyday?" = "Did you know the average human body has 1.2 to 1.5 gallons of blood? Wow, that's a lot. You probably don't need all of it, right?" = "There is no meme. Give me your wallet."

Well's mine's is literally not as far as interesting for spanish people but: When i was like 9 or 10, i wanted to be a Youtuber using a voice synthesizer (Known as "Loquendo", pretty popular in hispanic and a bit italian too), after lots of unoriginal names, i got "NicoMario70" because i liked how it sounded like in spanish and I personally don't like to be referred as a nickname, Mario due... duh it was my fav franchise at the time then and 7 is my favorite number, i got onto the Countryballs comunity and then i created the first """OC"""(at the time idk that i just created a oc during those years) ever which represented me during 2018: I dont have the original image but it looked like this: So yeah, basically imagine there is a Country where his flag is literally a RANDOM MARIO PNG IN A BLACK BACKGROUND and there is a Ball of that... how hilarious and cringe was that Ok but back to the original purpose, Remember when i said i was gonna to be a Ytuber with it?. It of course failed but i liked to be refered as that name and the OC image. Then i got into Discord and there is not much to say, other than at the time i created an OC named "Shurinoku" I put her as my PFP and during August-October?(maybe) i was known as "Shurinoku San"(Fortunately, the last cringe thing probably). But everything Changed in Someday December 2021, I decided to do two things, Change my OC design to this: Yep, my actual persona now at days, BUT More importantly my nickname... "NM7 (Nico)", just a abbreviation of my past name, however is more easy to remember and my actual name is on this too; as i said, because i dont like to refered with a nickname. I still use that name in Youtube for example, so were "Netsumu" comes from? Short awnser, it's a japanese play of words of "Internet" and "Seven" , i decided to use that name mostly on Non hispanic communities outside my mother language (except the Bomberman community). And there is me... Not expected to be that long but here we go.

I don’t think it’s a secret I have a fascination with Mima. The fact she was such a key part of the franchise and just fell off the map never fails to stir my fascination. But my boys Juunimeta and Eulogous have expanded that interest into the general 98 era. If I did a fan game, it’d probably be based on that part of the history. There’s a $5 game on Steam I can’t remember the name of. The premise is simple; you play as the Devil who has purchased a rundown apartment block. You attract various monsters to live in your apartments, keep them happy and use them to fight adventurers and heroes come to loot your stuff. I think a concept like that would fit Touhou well. Imagine playing as a vengeful Mima come back into Gensokyo to rescue your apprentice from the evil shrine maiden who has bewitched her with concepts like ‘friendship’ and ‘Youkai are bad, m’kay?’ You would go through a series of stages you could customize for a sidescrolling dungeon, and populate it with various types of ghosts, youkai and demons to defend it. Some could work well together, while other types hate each other. You could customize rooms to optimize your monster choice or throw in traps. Cast spells to give minions an edge. Recruit various characters from the PC-98 and Windows era as a dungeon boss, all as various heroines or generic fantasy characters fight their way into your dungeon. With the end goal of traversing the levels and making a dungeon so deadly, it takes down Reimu herself. All to bathe the land in darkness and rescue your surrogate daughter. Juuni, Eulo and I were chatting the other week over what Yumeko would look like were she reintroduced. The idea gave me a concept for a 98-focused RPG adventure. Yumeko the Sword-Maid wakes up in a world I can only describe as ‘the dimension of irrelevance’. In this strange new world, you have to recruit allies like Elly, Gengetsu and Satsuki, marching your way through a dull hellscape to try to find your way back to Gensokyo. The only way back is the Yin-Yang orb, which Mima tells you can grant wishes. Would probably put a lot of focus on character-interactions, maybe with a morality system which affects the ending. For instance, if you ignore Mima, she decides to become the god of this new world. If you have high affinity and low morality with her, she may choose to train you as her shrine maiden. Or if you have high affinity and high morality, she will use her wish to see Marisa one last time to say good-bye.

My username comes from my original self-insert character. Or rather, the first name I decided to use consistently for said character. I even have her appearance internalized, should you want to know it for some reason. Earlier versions had alternating versions of references to Sakuya Izayoi, minus the... you know. Not exactly in the mood to die today. Nyoko Hakui was her full name, simply because it sounded Japanese enough to work. Just to note, all my accounts have the last name Hakui attached to it, which would mean that for some accounts the name is literally 'Hakui Hakui'... Naming people that appear in my hyperactive and nearly impossible to shut down fantasy has since become a pastime for me. Like, who the hell comes up with Fueren Ayasei for a name, or Lukas Mannschryft for that matter?

My username is a portmanteau of Yume Nikki, my favorite game, and Touhou. Ironically, both games were major fixtures on 4Chan and our Onee-2Chan, so it seemed a good name to go with. Both games are seen as cultural touchstones of the Japanese internet, so there is some overlap in the fandoms as well. Including some cool fanart.

I like bones

I saw an ad and it just hit me with such inspiration I was like "That's rad" and did some kicks and the lights turned on and my dad beat my ass because it was 3am and a school night.

Polls close! Coming in dead last with -69 votes, dead meme. First place? Remilia lures a lecherous weirdo into a dark ally before draining him like a capri-sun. The vampire princess is drinking good tonight. I will say I am proud all the options appealed to everyone, and the one that won out was the option I came up with. Glad to see I'm improving at baiting ya'll. This week's bad Touhou Opinion is: Which character is most likely to have canonically eaten a human? = Flandre 'I never met a human who wasn't a meal.' = Mima 'How would I even eat someone? I don't have a digestive tract.' = Mystia 'Its not cannibalism if she's not human.' = Ran 'Chen! I brought home a happy meal! He's still smiling.' = Seija 'Sure you're tasty, haven't you ever bitten off a hangnail before?' = Yuugi 'The cowardly are meant to feed the strong' = Yuuka 'I prefer my humans grass fed and free range.' = Yuyuko 'Won't you ease her hunger?'

ngl lwk was starting to think touhou is dying

I know what you mean, I couldn't find anyone there either.

I'm not sure if anyone here ever heard about these guys, but I remember them popping off in views around 2020 because of this song right here and honestly dude, this is a goddamn banger even after I got used to uhh "rhythm game music" as some would call it. also the mv itself is just vibe af so

I wouldn't say "dislike", but I love to hate Suwako. Something about the weird frog/girl/nature-god thing to me begs the question of "what was ZUN drinking when he made her?" because I want a pint! And what's with her hat? Is it alive? Is it a brain parasite that controls her actions?

Well guys, the polls are in, and its a tie between the objectively correct answer and Cirno. Since the next few days will be super busy for me, I thought I may as well give you all my Bad Touhou Opinion for the week in advance. One of these characters has kidnapped you to be their Valentine's Day date. Which would be the most miserable for you? = Tenshi. Wants to do something exciting and fun, pushing you both into increasingly dangerous situations. Demands slaps instead of kisses, and calls you 'master' even after you ask her to stop. = Parsee. She is jealous and protective of you and always looking for a way to ruin your date. But no matter how bad things get, she wants to keep the date going. Prefers PDA to make others jealous. = Yukari, who has pulled you into her Gap World so you can watch TV with her as she crochets. The house smells of cat pee, and she wants you to call her 'Mommy' when you kiss or hold hands. = Yoshika. Smart, but with a wandering mind. Will read you romance poetry, but is stiff and robotic. Unable to feel romantic feelings or pleasure, but appreciates you trying. (Also, zombie). = Yuuka, who smashes your computer so the two of you can go on a four hour nature walk. Will probably step on you at some point. = Seija. She asked you on a date, kidnapped you when you said no, and generally wants to do the opposite of what you do. = Rumia. She doesn't want to date you, just fatten you up with a big dinner before trying to eat you. = Alice. Your date starts off charming and romantic, with no expense spared. But she becomes increasingly unhinged as the night continues. The date ends with with her demanding you marry and have children so she will 'always be relevant to someone'.