On recent events and fandom confusion

[CountVonNumenor]

Someone already started talking about this, but I thought about bringing it from a different point of view, and perhaps start an analysis. Just as I woke up in the morning, and I am very much confused of the two bombshells that just dropped in the Touhou community last night. I am not sure if it is actually two of them, or just one but somehow connected it was too late in the night to actually contribute in discussions, so all I could do was spectate in the morning the two problems are the following:

 

 

1.    A DMCA sent by unknown source (claimed by some to be ZUN himself, quite likely not him unless he wants to put some moves), that ended up in platforms outside Steam removing their downloadable copies of the Touhou games https://twitter.com/hazama_yuutou/status/1508198367007965184?t=ltQMtnO2TCk4JpIcTANtbg&s=19

 

From what I could see on other platforms, the discussions seem to go in the direction that the DMCA thing has been something good (“nobody is entitled to get things for free”), and that any source providing pirated versions of the game should be punished. Discord groups agreed with the measure, Reddit enforced the idea pirating is a big no-no, and Twitter cheered the strike on all sources of pirated games. It is a fair, that one should buy the games, and therefore help the creator (since ZUN is a one man army basically). However, the first 5 games (PC-98 era) are basically a relic that is not compatible with modern computers unless using Virtual Machine, and the games from 6 to 9 can only be found legally in CD form. The latter can create quite a hassle, despite all the tutorials and extremely useful info put forwards by the wiki and people who want to help. After all, I honestly find it a bit difficult going through all the hustle of buying a game from Japan, pay a large sum of money for it (especially when making the conversion to local currency), wait for it to be delivered, hope it will be delivered to Eastern Europe and pay more on the delivery than on the product itself. Plus, I personally tend to be very doubtful when buying something expensive, especially in the case I will not enjoy it – did I just spend a lot of money for something I ended up not enjoying?

 

To quote on an idea someone came up with in trying to explain what happened or who to blame for the (first) incident of the night:

 

Quote

So here are my theories on who might've done the DMCA, from most likely to least likely:

 

1. Oyamada-san, who is ZUN's legal representative/legal team more or less. He's done DMCA takedowns before.

 

2. Mediascape. This is the company that publishes ZUN's games on Steam, so another likely candidate.

 

3. CAVE/GoodSmile/NextNinja/UnknownX/Aquastyle: Grouping these three together, since all three hold the Touhou license currently, with CAVE holding the license for a (supposedly cancelled) Touhou mobile game, and GoodSmile/NextNinja being the parent company/developer of Touhou LostWord. UnknownX and Aquastyle also have the Touhou license with DanKagu. With the latter, there was a rumor I read a while ago that they did take down PC-98 links though.

 

4. A DMCA troll. The least likely, but still plausible candidate.

 

So... Touhou 6-9 for Steam soon? 

 

2.    A little controversy started over on Twitter from alleged editing of the wiki https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/tq24bp/on_the_recent_touhou_wiki_drama_a_nuanced_analysis/ (before the thread gets nuked) that made it to social media.

 

Opinions are normally very mixed in the fandom about ships. Personally, I never really cared about people shipping characters, but I cannot deny that from time to time I might enjoy a piece of fan art of that kind. I know about the implications of yuri and what people usually make out of it, especially in the way of altering character personalities (which I have seen a lot here in the Touhou fandom), but again, I feel too indifferent on the problem for it to actually bother me anymore. However, I guess Twitter is gonna be Twitter, and people will always get angry out of the most stupid of reasons.

 

Anyway, I hope things will calm down soon, and this will be just another one of those stupid drama that seem to be going on (again) like in the past half a year.

[AMT]

Some guy changed the words "closest friend" on Reimu's and Marisa's article to "girlfriend", which was then reverted 10 minutes later and the user was suspended for 2 weeks.

We wouldn't even be talking about this if some people on Twatter didn't blow this WAAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

Funny thing is, this isn't even the first time that EXACT user did EXACTLY this. He did it once back in October (which I reverted) but nobody seemed to give a shit about that back then.

[Ken Hisuag]

I'm surprised to be surprised by this turn of events. I've been expecting something DMCA related to happen here for a while (I think we all know there are plenty of downloads here that are less than legal), but I did not anticipate it to be directed toward official content, and especially not in this bizarrely selective manner.

To clarify:
-all TSA Windows era games, including 6-9 which are unlikely to receive official release in the Western hemisphere (to which is the relevant factor)
-all TSA Windows era game soundtracks, which have never been available for direct purchase
-all TSA music albums
-all Tasofro games, only two/three of which are available for direct purchase (I'm not familiar with the publication status of 14.5)
-no ZUN Soft games
-no ZUN Soft game soundtracks
-no Tasofro music albums, which are available for direct purchase.

From Maden's post, the complaint listed four major sources:
1: I'm not sure actually, but it looks like one of ZUN's old blogs that he hasn't used in years?
2: AppleMusic
3: Touhou Yomoyama News
4: Steam

Said complaint was apparently anonymous.

I don't know anything about the technical aspects of DMCA stipulations, but this doesn't seem to add up. The sources are inconsistent with each other, specific stipulations of exactly what is being challenged being unclarified. I'm not even sure the Tasofro games were intended to be part of the claim, based on the sources used. Regardless, I figure there's still missing information, and I can only hope more will be disclosed going forward; the identity (and subsequently, authority) of the claimant would be a good start.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ken Hisuag
M/S

[Nitorium]

Honestly,

 I am quite surprised that it took this long for me to receive this DMCA.

I plan on obtaining more information from this 'anonymous' reporter and see if it is indeed someone from ZUN or ZUN himself.

 

[CountVonNumenor]

2 hours ago, AMT said:

Some guy changed the words "closest friend" on Reimu's and Marisa's article to "girlfriend", which was then reverted 10 minutes later and the user was suspended for 2 weeks.

We wouldn't even be talking about this if some people on Twatter didn't blow this WAAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

Funny thing is, this isn't even the first time that EXACT user did EXACTLY this. He did it once back in October (which I reverted) but nobody seemed to give a shit about that back then.

 

 

Waut, this happened in recent past, and only now got any attention? Plus, now that Twitter is also a player involved in this drama, I'm quite curious how things will develop. Especially with the..special nature of people on Twitter

[IzayoiSkylake]

I've talked about that dmca thing with some people. 

One of them said that it couldn't possibly be ZUN's doing, and that he had already said in the past that he didn't care about the West pirating his games. I also saw comments about a group of trolls doing this, and that the same thing happened with Destiny 2. 

A guy from a discord server sent a screenshot with some comments(if this kind of content is allowed here I will edit later with the screenshot), and one of them said:

''A certain group(EXA)got their hands porting a 2hu fangame to their arcade hardware, and before this they used to forcefully warn MAME developer to ditch the latest Cave's shmup from being playable.''

About the shipps, well, i dont care about it. I got some shipps i like, but, i'm not into discussions about it.

Edited March 28, 2022 by IzayoiSkylake

[CountVonNumenor]

46 minutes ago, IzayoiSkylake said:

About the shipps, well, i dont care about it. I got some shipps i like, but, i'm not into discussions about it.

 

I have mentioned the second drama not only because it happened almost simultaneously, but also because it brew a bit of a theory inside my head. Call me crazy, call me a conspiracy theorist, but here's that mad idea that bugged me so much today. Time for your tinfoil hats, this might get crazy (or at least extremely stupid), so take it with as much salt as you consider:

 

• the guy who edited the wiki got extremely mad on the wiki editors for reverting his text back to what it used to be 
• the person moved the beef against the wiki on other social media
• the Touhou wiki also has access to game files and other stuff that ended up being target of the DMCA
• so, what if that one person is actually the one that announced the DMCA, which initially acted against the wiki, but as a result affect Moriya Shrine too since the files could be found here too? 

 

Sounds crazy, but from seeing how that person acted, like extremely vengeful, he could have had a contribution in what ended up happening. If he was wishful enough to drag this whole thing to Twitter, where it is more than likely to spark a big debacle since we all know the nature of those people dwelling there, I would not find it too much for him to also wish for revenge for the wiki, therefore summoning the DMCA. 

[melon]

That's really unfortunate. Hoping the situation gets resolved on both moriya + other platforms. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by melon
i have no clue how to delete a comment

[melon]

25 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

 

I have mentioned the second drama not only because it happened almost simultaneously, but also because it brew a bit of a theory inside my head. Call me crazy, call me a conspiracy theorist, but here's that mad idea that bugged me so much today. Time for your tinfoil hats, this might get crazy (or at least extremely stupid), so take it with as much salt as you consider:

 

• the guy who edited the wiki got extremely mad on the wiki editors for reverting his text back to what it used to be 
• the person moved the beef against the wiki on other social media
• the Touhou wiki also has access to game files and other stuff that ended up being target of the DMCA
• so, what if that one person is actually the one that announced the DMCA, which initially acted against the wiki, but as a result affect Moriya Shrine too since the files could be found here too? 

 

Sounds crazy, but from seeing how that person acted, like extremely vengeful, he could have had a contribution in what ended up happening. If he was wishful enough to drag this whole thing to Twitter, where it is more than likely to spark a big debacle since we all know the nature of those people dwelling there, I would not find it too much for him to also wish for revenge for the wiki, therefore summoning the DMCA. 

 

[IzayoiSkylake]

41 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

 

I have mentioned the second drama not only because it happened almost simultaneously, but also because it brew a bit of a theory inside my head. Call me crazy, call me a conspiracy theorist, but here's that mad idea that bugged me so much today. Time for your tinfoil hats, this might get crazy (or at least extremely stupid), so take it with as much salt as you consider:

 

• the guy who edited the wiki got extremely mad on the wiki editors for reverting his text back to what it used to be 
• the person moved the beef against the wiki on other social media
• the Touhou wiki also has access to game files and other stuff that ended up being target of the DMCA
• so, what if that one person is actually the one that announced the DMCA, which initially acted against the wiki, but as a result affect Moriya Shrine too since the files could be found here too? 

 

Sounds crazy, but from seeing how that person acted, like extremely vengeful, he could have had a contribution in what ended up happening. If he was wishful enough to drag this whole thing to Twitter, where it is more than likely to spark a big debacle since we all know the nature of those people dwelling there, I would not find it too much for him to also wish for revenge for the wiki, therefore summoning the DMCA. 

In the current situation you can't doubt anything, what seems to be crazy sometimes ends up being real (if you read One Piece, you saw how far Luffy has come in the manga now). I still believe that it was a group of malicious trolls who did this to the games, but your theory is also an option. It would be nice if someone could find them and do something as bad as this as a warning.

 

[AMT]

4 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

 

 

Waut, this happened in recent past, and only now got any attention? Plus, now that Twitter is also a player involved in this drama, I'm quite curious how things will develop. Especially with the..special nature of people on Twitter

Yeah, just look at their contributions.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/NoobyKai

Back in October 21 they did literally the exact same thing.

[slapper]

2 hours ago, IzayoiSkylake said:

One of them said that it couldn't possibly be ZUN's doing, and that he had already said in the past that he didn't care about the West pirating his games.

Which is why I was confused about this whole thing when I heard about it. He doesn’t care unless you violate the rules that he’s laid out transparently. ZUN’s are clear and easy to understand,  this site isn’t selling translated Touhou games, they are up for free grabs and the translations aren’t being tailored as “official” so I don’t think this was ZUN. 

[someAnonFrom8Chan]

hello there, made this account to clarify some stuff,
a subnormal among us was the one that out of the absolute emptiness of his head decided to fake dmca you folk, it all started with the creation
of this touhou thread https://8chan.moe/v/res/563076.html
which the typing lamprey saw and as it is his nature decided by himself to fuck you over, reasons given by the mouth-breather(274a0b) being:
"Now normalfags will have a harder time finding these games"
"I did it just to fuck with the thread."
"I was motivated by those fake youtube dmca's that are incredibly easy to forge. Hardest part was the mail provider but it was like 5 bucks."
and on this gamergate(yes, we still exist) thread(archive https://archive.ph/5j1gp) he(b58db3) gave the following statements
"so my mail worked huh"
"Just buy the games, they are cheap."
"If you appreciate ZUN's work then why not spare a few shekels?"
"Only 5 of them and they all suck, the series only got good when it made the jump to Windows"(in response to the question by another anon: "Aren't most of the original games for the nec pc98?")
so is conclusion, you have been fucked by a lone vermin, it wasn't a targeted attack by anons(plural), "we" have no qualm(not sure if that is the right word, but whatever, "beef" if what i meant) with you lot(id like to think), put the games+music+anything else back, try to look into ways to make it harder for lone wastes of oxygen to fuck you over

ban this account if you so desire because i ain't using it again.

Edited March 28, 2022 by someAnonFrom8Chan
not sure if qualm was the right word, also damn, though he only fucked you with vidya, he also screwed you with music? what a *insert colorful descriptor proper of an imageboard denizen in description of the actions that have been performed*.

[Kurzov]

The whole anonymous claimant thing is indeed a bit of a red flag. If it was ZUN, it would say ZUN or Jun'ya Ota or Team Shanghai Alice or something like that. If it was Oyamada, it would have their details. Though I'm not sure if the takedown notice was submitted anonymously, or if CloudFlare is hiding that information until Torm requests it in order to serve the counterclaim. For a DMCA claim to be "any good", legally, it requires the takedown notice to have some sort of contact information when submitting to a service provider (CloudFlare) for the purposes of returning a counterclaim notice and such.

Once the counterclaim is sent and received, the respondent (original takedown notice submitter) has 10-14 days to file a lawsuit in court, or else the content can go back up.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Kurzov

[AMT]

This whole DMCA claim is literal bullshit.

Like someone just decided to "anonymously" file a DMCA complaint, technically all copyrights to the Touhou games belong to ZUN and his company.

DMCA complaints like these are to us like what bomb threats are to airports, and what SWAT'ing is to gamers on Twitch. Literally trolled.

It's still wise to take precautions as they have been

Edited March 28, 2022 by AMT

[IzayoiSkylake]

1 hour ago, Kurzov said:

 

Just wanted to say that it is very good to find another source for downloading touhou games, very nice your initiative with https://theorreriessun.ml, good job. 

[Angys_Komeji]

1 hour ago, IzayoiSkylake said:

Just wanted to say that it is very good to find another source for downloading touhou games, very nice your initiative with https://theorreriessun.ml, good job. 

Thanks Dude

[slapper]

5 hours ago, someAnonFrom8Chan said:

hello there, made this account to clarify some stuff,
a subnormal among us was the one that out of the absolute emptiness of his head decided to fake dmca you folk, it all started with the creation
of this touhou thread https://8chan.moe/v/res/563076.html
which the typing lamprey saw and as it is his nature decided by himself to fuck you over, reasons given by the mouth-breather(274a0b) being:
"Now normalfags will have a harder time finding these games"
"I did it just to fuck with the thread."
"I was motivated by those fake youtube dmca's that are incredibly easy to forge. Hardest part was the mail provider but it was like 5 bucks."
and on this gamergate(yes, we still exist) thread(archive https://archive.ph/5j1gp) he(b58db3) gave the following statements
"so my mail worked huh"
"Just buy the games, they are cheap."
"If you appreciate ZUN's work then why not spare a few shekels?"
"Only 5 of them and they all suck, the series only got good when it made the jump to Windows"(in response to the question by another anon: "Aren't most of the original games for the nec pc98?")
so is conclusion, you have been fucked by a lone vermin, it wasn't a targeted attack by anons(plural), "we" have no qualm(not sure if that is the right word, but whatever, "beef" if what i meant) with you lot(id like to think), put the games+music+anything else back, try to look into ways to make it harder for lone wastes of oxygen to fuck you over

ban this account if you so desire because i ain't using it again.

so you're telling me a 4chan elitist decided to be a dick? 

I guess it makes sense, but wow.  I am at a loss for words. 

[7thsu]

This isn't YouTube where DMCA takedowns are handled by a bot, this is real life, and a real person who has copyright ownership to at least part of the content has to file a real court case within the next 14 days or the notice is moot.

Some bottom on 8chan doesn't have "copyright ownership to at least part of the content", so I'm not losing my head over it. The 8chan thread linked above does have a torrent file with TH06-18 (I have run its contents through Virustotal, it's safe), so that should hold us over for the time being.

[CountVonNumenor]

Alright, there is one thing only now I realized. Looking on YouTube weeks later at reactions from when the DMCA takedown took place, people seemed to have referenced one specific thread from Moriya Shrine in regards to the evolution of events. Well, it seems like I have accidentally created one of the main sources of discussion and status update in regards to what was going on. From the original "Anon hypothesis" to "4chan/8chan hijack" and eventually actual contact from the legal team, everyone was talking about this one thread. Especially since I do not think the chan argument has been brough anywhere else.

Oops....