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The phantom remix tournament.


jssf1992

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5 hours ago, jssf1992 said:

I've noticed we've had a lot of things in the 5-7 range, which is kind of sad to see.  I wonder if our expectations have been getting too high?

mine way of ranking
10 = i can listen forever
9 = i love
8 = it's great
7 = i like
6 = ok
5 = uh?
and things get downhill from here on

 

im awaiting for G's guesses 

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12 hours ago, jssf1992 said:

I've noticed we've had a lot of things in the 5-7 range, which is kind of sad to see.  I wonder if our expectations have been getting too high?

But 5-7 range is still really good? There's a whole 4 spots lower that it's possible to be, you know. I though on average the scores were rather high for this tournament. Also, I have a text file reminding me what my standards should be for each score, to keep my scoring as consistent as possible.

6 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

im awaiting for G's guesses 

Yep pretty much lol, Ken probably wants to guess too.

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The average of the whole tournament was 7.25.

 

Hmm, I don't know.  If a 5/10 is the even point of good/bad quality (equal parts good and bad) then that's a really bad place to be.

 

For me:

Spoiler

 

10 = As near to perfect as possible

9 = Classic/one of the best, worth remembering for years and returning to, something to prove the merits of a genre.

8 = Very good, a stand out in it's genre.

7 = Enjoyable, worth a few listens/viewings/sessions.

6 = Niche appeal, perhaps not for everyone, but the appeal is understandable even if not universal, or a flawed piece that had great potential.

5 = Equally flawed and worthwhile.  Some potential, but mixed with issues.

4/3/2 = The balance is skewed further toward the flaws the lower you go.

1 = Actively bad and/or harmful.  Hypothetically a piece that somehow detracts from it's audience while giving nothing in return.

 

Personally, I don't think anything here was below a six, and most were in the seven to nine range.  Which is what I would expect of Touhou.

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Hmmm. For me, I base it more on "how enjoyable was this overall" rather than weighing good and bad parts. So for me, a 5/10 means "average enjoyment". That still means I liked it. It just doesn't mean I liked it significantly more than the average of what I've heard across Touhou remixes. The way I see it, there's so much quality stuff in the Touhou community that if I rated similarly to what you posted, I'd hardly ever drop below the halfway point of my scale - and then what's the point of having a 10-point scale? Basically, I think in terms of "how good is this" rather than "is this good".

But that's just my two cents. And if my line of thinking brings my scores lower than everyone else's, well, it probably doesn't matter that much because it's balanced out by Garison constantly yeeting 10s everywhere lol.

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12 hours ago, Garison DeCrick said:

Drunken_Flower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihg01Y-Xa9o

Retribution for the Eternal Night = Jssf called this song a “lovely arrange”. But jssf oftentimes compliments other peoples’ remixes anyways. Another factor is the nose. The art is drawn realistically in contrast to anime-style artwork with no nose. In fact, it’s the most prominent nose of all the pieces. And who has the most prominent nose on the site? Drunken_Flower! The nose in his profile picture is very heavily defined. Plus, if you look at his profile, it’s a realistic city. You know what’s in realistic cities? Realistic humans, with realistic noses! Not only that, but in a later entry, Drunken_Flower said something along the lines of “now that i gave this a 10/10 people are going to think this is my post”. Why would he say this if this hasn’t happened before? It’s because it has! This is the first 10/10 that Drunken gave in the tournament. Plus, in Drunken’s later ratings, he says a 10/10 is a song that he can “listen to forever”. Plus, he knows a lot of the advanced instruments like “erhu”.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvTBhY9J1R0

The Way We Walked Home Together = I mentioned this above, but this post was also before Drunken said “now that i gave this a 10/10 people are going to think this is my post” so this also qualifies under that criteria. Plus, he misses summer, so he can be nostalgic for this piece.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stAHdV5Xj34

Bad Apple Orchestra = Sorry Drunken, but this is the last one you’re left with. I highly doubt this one’s yours but I couldn’t think of a third one for you XD.

sadness
all those Among Us play kinda worth it

12 hours ago, Garison DeCrick said:

Drunken_Flower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihg01Y-Xa9o

Retribution for the Eternal Night = NOT JSSF CONFIRMED. Jssf was just saying lovely here to throw people off.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvTBhY9J1R0

The Way We Walked Home Together

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SaXILUYf8E

So Bright = A more fitting choice than the Orchestra one for Drunken. Still not 100% confident on it, but a lot better than Bad Apple XD

less sadness..
my play still standing quite strong
75% 75% 50%, that's 66.6% average
good enough

"The art is drawn realistically"
bruh.. i said before aint rate the music cause the images. that's for whole another realm.
and Jssf got nose, Busker also got a bit of nose, Ken... not even a face smh.
but if you wanna know what i think of it,
from technical view, IT'S GREAT!!!
from my feels... (im scared).
also did you know i draw?

image.png.3c26aefb92f21d3a517be5e0866243bc.png
no, not that suika, aint draw that

so here my submission

Spoiler

SPOILERCEPTION

 
Spoiler

So Bright
so yeah, i like Funk, Disco, Synthwave (the Waves version, if only Synth then nono).
basically Hatsunetsumiko's, Shibayan, Violet Delta, Mahotoa Tofu (psst, free stuff).
and anything retro, i like. Even Rock'n'Roll (think Elvis), ElectroSwing or just regular SwingReggae? yea!! (i feel oldHelp.png.f57b7e26655160d850b0383c698a8ef1.png)
also Hip Hop can you believe it? there's so far i only met 2 albums for hip hop and both from Butaotome. or i just like those two album, not the genre... maybe....

so back at this song
and those guitar, man... it hella lit
i fell in love the first time hearing this.
and i see no problem with the voice ? it sound great! whatdoy'allmean with it being scary and stuff?
i confus ????

星霜降る野、夜を邌歩く(Legend of Tohno)
this actually one of my early song that i heard when just joined 2hu community.
that folk and rock combination with powerful voice is amazing!
i shoulda research MN-Logic and it's branch more

also for Ken, about the translation...
im sorry, i only found the scans of it.
and then after hearing it and reading it,
i found out they add lotta metaphors and hella complex lyric arrangement,
plus they use uncommon (rare) Kanjis which makes it more FUN... yeah...
so it gonna be a while....

The Way We Walked Home Together
i dont usually listen to Akatsuki, EXCEPT their ballad
for example: Mirage of Memories (キオクノ蜃気楼) and For the Weak and Small (小さく弱きものたちへ)
those two got a great lyric and meaning in it. not to mention how the arrangement is on another level.
(and one more exception: KUNG-FU Master No.9)
that's all i listen from Akatsuki Records...

 

to make it easy for y'all, i usually pick music for casual listening
wherever you go whatever you do it kinda fits, not too intense nor bland
let's retrace what ive submitted in the tournaments so far to get to know what im into

Spoiler

hehe, spoiler goes brrrrrrrrrr

Spoiler

Tournament #1

Title : Miss Divine
Artist : Milkychan
Genre : Electro Swing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcV6uIUu5_U

Title : HOTTER HOTTER
Circle : Rolling Contact
Genre : Jungle Terror
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQxGQcjH9jk

Title : Photoshop CS ⑨
Circle : Miskyworks
Genre : Acoustic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKHvDVN0S0U

 

Tournament #2

Title : アイウタ (Love Song)
Circle :  無音KAGURA
Genre : Japanese Poetic Pop Electro idk anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z84XrX4mbBc

Title : ハクレイ・ザ・ダンマクサーファー (Hakurei Danmaku Surfer)
Cirlce : さくらゆっけ
Genre : Surf Rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkprw4ThFzY

 

Title : KUNG-FU Master No.9
Circle : OH LOOK AKATSUKI RECORDS
Genre : Kung-fu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q59q0Y6osGg

 

Tournament #3

y'all should've rember

Title : BLOOMING SEASON
Circle : 歌恋人 (Karento)
Genre Pop Dancehall Vocal Banger with a bit of Funk Disco-ish yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKvxlxWTsPg

Title : Blue Diamond
Circle : Boston Touhou Gakudan
Genre : Jazz, Lounge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esCdONbOpYw

Title : Sky Dust
Circle : イノライ
Genre : Pop Ballad maybe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnXwEKDJBc
hehe even kappashiro just uploaded this

Tournament #4
this is the 4th Tournament you fool!


ya see the similarities?
also about orchestral, i do like em.
but it feel that's too intense and too formal, ya see?
i need certain mood to listen to them.

and Jssf likes 2 of my submission again!!
im happy

 

Also Garison
Consider using this button more.
image.png.e87110943da8b4d6e43fb2c81c6a6a92.png

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Remix Tournament 4, AKA everyone realises how arbitrary our ranking system is lol.

Guess it's time to show my picks.

Spoiler

My picks were:

Toyosatomimi's Medley

Retribution for the Eternal Night

Flight of the Bamboo Cutter ~ Lunatic Princess

A bit different from my usual pattern, huh? I normally like to aim for variety between my 3 pieces, but last time Ken pointed out that he was surprised I hadn't submitted any orchestral stuff, and it made me think, although I've posted about orchestral in musical discoveries before, I don't think I've ever submitted one for remix tournament. So I decided to go all orchestral themes this time... well, actually I guess Retribution for the Eternal Night is more traditional than orchestral, but eh, close enough.

 

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[quote] 1992? You know what there was during that time? Less technology and more pure nature. The clouds is just raw nature. Something you’d see of the National Geographic or Nature Planet. Plus, look at the profile picture of the uploader, it’s a male! Jssf is the only one here who has a picture of a male as their profile pic. So obviously, Jssf would find this piece quite relatable, I think.[/quote]

Um, 1992 wasn't that long ago.  I'm 28 not 60.  (Heck, the industrial age was well over a hundred years ago, even in the U.S.).  Not sure why you focused on the picture, and especially the profile picture (Roman is stylish, that's it).  On the other hand, I've said a number of times that my favorite of the mainline games is EoSD, and that orchestral is my favorite musical genre.

18 hours ago, Garison DeCrick said:

Everyone except me rated this song low, and it’s not me. But Jssf doesn’t post their reviews, and they talked about later how sad they were that everyone was rating things with lower scores. So Jssf’s own post probably got affected by these ratings as well!

Eh, I can see why you would think that, though wouldn't that have led you to the lowest rated piece?  (Actually, there were several pieces with lower averages . . . )

 

18 hours ago, Garison DeCrick said:

Time Will Tell is definitely the most surprising! There was a lot of red herrings for this one, like how I used it as the song for one of my mod videos. Or how Buskerdog has it as the profile picture of his second alt channel. Or how Ken Hisuag did the “Haha” reaction to it, I’m guessing now just to add more chaotic madness to the guessing process lol.

Uh . . . those aren't red herrings.  I'm certainly not being misleading, even if it is somewhat off the beaten path for me.

 

18 hours ago, Garison DeCrick said:

U.N. Choir was also surprising. Maybe he frequents the Musical Discoveries thread? Who knows. I don’t.

No, I've known this piece for a long time, and to be honest, it's my favorite of my picks this time.

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I'm alive!

Okay, first thing's first.

On 2/3/2021 at 6:04 PM, jssf1992 said:

I've noticed we've had a lot of things in the 5-7 range, which is kind of sad to see.

My default rating is seven; anything more is above average, between five and six is okay-but-with-conditions, and anything less is reserved for pieces I didn't enjoy. I want to reserve my tens for things I'm really impressed with, otherwise they lose their impact. That being said, come end of a tournament I tend to look back and regard my ratings as overly cautious, especially in the first round. In my opinion, a good tournament should be in the "5-7 range;" anything lower would be unexpected for this group, and anything higher should reflect an exceptionally good tournament. I personally think RT4 went quite well.

On that note, I'm not sure ratings are always the most decisive factor in determining the success of a tournament either. With the conclusion of RT4, I'm reflecting on which entries are likely to be the most memorable for me. I rated Dawn of Asuka unusually high, but I haven't thought much about it since the second round; alternatively, I've listened to No More, Anymore? quite a bit more than Kung-Fu Master No.9 since RT2 despite not being as receptive to it initially. So with that in mind, these are my top three most personally memorable entries for this tournament:

Spoiler

1: Time Will Tell

2: Little Little Wish

3: Path Through the Bamboo Forest

With all that out of the way, we can finally get to the anticipated stuff. With how late I am on this, I might as well get my guesses out before confirming my picks.

Spoiler

It's best to get the obvious ones out of the way first, so as to narrow down possibilities. Normally I'd start with Amamiya Dana, because he doesn't rate his own submissions. But this time he sneakily rated one of them, thus making things much more interesting. Instead, I'll have to start with Jssf. Usually he's the hardest, since I have no information to go on. Since he revealed his picks in the tally post, however, it makes sense to start there (I feel like I'm cheating, though . . .):

jssf1992
U.N. Owen Was Her? [Choir]
Gensokyo, Where the Flowers of Feelings Bloom
Time Will Tell

I'd like to think I would have figured this out by process of elimination, but I obviously can't know for sure. There were multiple entries that I immediately attributed to someone based on the style or genre, only for that person's review to put that assumption in question. U.N. Owen was Garison's requested choir, while the Eurobeat of Time Will Tell seemed to implicate Busker, but in both cases the suspects' "testimonies" seemed to "clear" them. Something I didn't notice at first was the upload dates on the videos in question; I know the meme is that you're familiar with older works, but it may be a usable strategy in future. Regardless, your submissions definitely held up amongst the rest; I'm not about to do the calculations myself, but Time Will Tell deserved to be among the higher ratings.

Dana Iclucia
World of Fantasy ~ Psystyle Remix
Little Little Wish

For the third pick, I finally get to try out my deduction skills. I assume something with a high intensity beat and a decently high rating. Also it can't be from a round that one of your other picks was in, per Jssf's clarification. Given all this, I'm going to go with Flash Storm.

For the record, I remember Little Little Wish from Musical Discoveries; it was posted directly after Karminations, which was the song that got me into Stack as an artist rather than a song-by-song basis (and is still one of my favorites, btw). I'm actually really glad you submitted it here, though; I was not in a position to appreciate it fully the first time, and it being in a tournament forced me to consider the piece more thoroughly. I probably should have rated it higher than I did . . . Know that I've added it to my personal collection.

Now things get very difficult very quickly.

Garison DeCrick
Concealed Four Seasons ~ Piano
June, Hydrangea, Test of Courage
Reincarnation ~ Symphonic Metal

I have to go with the assumption that you're intentionally encrypting your reviews, because I know for a fact you posted that Reincarnation remix in the Halloween tournament. There are no specific reasons why I'm attributing the other two to you, except that I find it difficult to see either DF or Busker submitting them based on their reviews.

Full disclosure, I think I rated Concealed Four Seasons too high. Listening to it again, I'm more sure now then I was initially that the arranger recorded multiple individual remixes and overlaid them in editing. Other than that, these submission did a good job of mixing things up a bit.

Buskerdog
Path Through The Bamboo Forest
Wouldn't you know, Jssf confirms the one submission I was already confident on. Past this I have absolutely no idea what's yours versus what's DF's. The best I can do is use the review style of this one confirmed submission for comparison.
The Dawn of Asuka, and the Beginning of the Legend (Brass Band Ver.)
Flight of the Bamboo Cutter ~ Lunatic Princess ~ Orchestra

If I'm right, then it would seem you were leaning in on the orchestral representation, and I'm not about to complain about that. I was pretty confident from the first listening of Path Through the Bamboo Forest that it would win, with Time Will Tell being the only contender in my mind (btw, first non-vocal arrangement to win!).

Drunken_Flower
So Bright
The Way Home We Walked On Together
Time Passes in the Field, Walk Slowly Through the Night

Similar to Garison, I'm pretty sure you're covering your tracks very thoroughly. That being said, you usually have wider genre experience than the rest of us, and I'd initially assumed you for both So Bright and Time Passes in the Field on respective first listens. Your reviews keep throwing me off, so this is the best I can do. I really appreciated these picks, though less for the pieces themselves and more for the discovery they promised. I've already been listening to more MN-logic24 (expect that in Musical Discoveries eventually).

I look forward to reading everyone's reveals and seeing how wrong I was about the last three. Speaking of which, here are my reveals:

Spoiler

There was a Piano in Scarlet Devil Mansion?
I've already picked out my submissions for next tournament, and all of them already exist on Youtube; y'all shouldn't have to put up with this next time.
There's not much more for me to say beyond what was in my review. I feel a bit bad for promising Garison a piano submission and then managing to find a style he didn't like. I've got a plan for next time, though . . . Hopefully enough to redeem myself.

Bad Apple
Rush Garcia is one of my favorite orchestral arrangers in the VGM sphere, not just for his style but for his skill. This is an especially imaginative arrangement, taking a theme that's been done almost to death and doing something completely unexpected with it. I anticipated a skeptical reception for it, but it seems most of you liked it. I'll keep that in mind for future tournaments.

LWCO
I found GET IN THE RING shortly after RT3, and it is officially my favorite doujin circle ever. I've become especially fond of their fun rock arrangements. Expect quite a bit of their work to pop up in Musical Discoveries now that I'm finally free to share it.

That took a lot longer than I thought it would, and I'm glad I didn't try to do this yesterday. Now I'll have to come back tomorrow to see what everyone else said. ?

TTT

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?

I'm really surprised that worked! DF's reviews of The Way Home and Time Passes in the Field had me heavily doubting them as his picks, despite my initial assumptions. It eventually came down to The Way Home, and between Busker's and DF's respective reviews I went with the most believable option. This was definitely harder than last tournament.

On 2/5/2021 at 1:00 AM, Drunken_Flower said:

to make it easy for y'all, i usually pick music for casual listening
wherever you go whatever you do it kinda fits, not too intense nor bland

I feel like I already "knew" this, but the clear statement will certainly help in future.

I've given a brief explanation of my submission strategy previously, but for what it's worth: I separate out discoveries that impress me in some unique aspect, or that I'm looking to present here in a special way. Bad Apple from this tournament and Lunatic Princess from RT3 are arrangements that appealed to me for the unusual approaches they took in adapting their source themes, while previous tournament entries Daughter of Touhou Spring and Idola Deus were musical styles I wasn't familiar with at the time. I take this approach because I want to hear what others have to say about them, and as such I'm not usually too worried about ratings as much as I am concerned with the experiences had.

On 2/5/2021 at 5:15 AM, buskerdog said:

Remix Tournament 4, AKA everyone realises how arbitrary our ranking system is lol.

And that's kind of the point, right? If we took our ratings too seriously, this wouldn't be as fun. They're important to quantify the experiences, but it's the reasoning behind them that make it worth doing. For me, it's a forced exercise in evaluating my approach to music as a whole. I'd heard Little Little Wish before, but I was forced to consider it seriously this time around because of it's presence in the tournament; subsequently, I came to appreciate it much more than I would have otherwise.

With that out of the way, I can get into the fun stuff.

TTT

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12 hours ago, Ken Hisuag said:

 

On 2/5/2021 at 10:15 AM, buskerdog said:

Remix Tournament 4, AKA everyone realises how arbitrary our ranking system is lol.

And that's kind of the point, right? If we took our ratings too seriously, this wouldn't be as fun. There important to quantify the experiences, but it's the reasoning behind them that make it worth doing. 

Yeah, glad to hear people saying that because that's exactly the way it should be taken!

Gonna thank everyone for participating once again, and thanks to Jssf for hosting and number crunching.

There were a lot of really interesting pieces this time around which were a lot of fun to experience. Although I didn't originally rate it high, there always seems to be that one piece that grows on me a load, and it's So Bright - I've just fallen for how damn catchy it is, and it probably stood out as the most memorable piece of this tournament for me. (Although I think some people said they didn't like the voice, that never bothered me at all, it was just that not understanding the lyrics was frustrating - I've since unlocked the ability to actually make out some of them now.)

In other news:

Spoiler

Remix Tournament in 2019: "Liked song, gave big number."

Remix Tournament in 2021: "Hello and thank you for attending my TED talk. By the end of this presentation you will hopefully understand how the composer has used melodies to portray Cirno's internal struggle of not knowing whether the earth is flat or not. But first, we need to talk about parallel universes."

 

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1 hour ago, buskerdog said:

In other news:

  Hide contents

Remix Tournament in 2019: "Liked song, gave big number."

Remix Tournament in 2021: "Hello and thank you for attending my TED talk. By the end of this presentation you will hopefully understand how the composer has used melodies to portray Cirno's internal struggle of not knowing whether the earth is flat or not. But first, we need to talk about parallel universes."

 

Yeah, I've found that funny as well.

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2 hours ago, buskerdog said:

So Bright - I've just fallen for how damn catchy it is

HAHA YES

2 hours ago, buskerdog said:

not understanding the lyrics was frustrating

OH YEAH ALSO

i have the lyrics
this one easier since it's english

Spoiler

So Bright

...

I wanna make you laugh
I wanna make you shine

Standing here you and I tonight
Living in different worlds
I saw you in the night

Ocean of our words divide two hearts
And I'm trying to cross the silent night

In your eyes
I will find
In your eyes
Who you are

I wanna make you laugh
I wanna make you shine
I wanna make you laugh
I wanna make you shine

Standing here you and I tonight
Living in different worlds
I saw you in the night

Ocean of moonlight shine on
Two hearts never strong but never with a doubt

In your eyes
I will find
In your eyes
Who you are

I wanna make you laugh
I wanna make you shine
I wanna make you laugh
I wanna make you shine

If we only got tonight it's alright
'Cause tonight with you is so bright
If we only got tonight it's alright
'Cause tonight with you is so bright

*repeat*

 

aint cheat by using scans nope, not at all, wdym by that? nope

i rember this in one try!

mob_suika-export.gif.6d8d97d0ef2df024e56271e49c363436.gif🍺 BEER FOR THE BEER GOD!!!🍺 mob_suika-export.gif.6d8d97d0ef2df024e56271e49c363436.gif

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Okay, this time for good.

On 2/3/2021 at 6:04 PM, jssf1992 said:

I don't really choose based on the actual pieces.  Sorry to disappoint.

No worries! Not all mysteries have to have exciting reveals; besides, even if you didn't orchestrate it as such, you have to admit that the presentation was ideal for this tournament.

On 2/4/2021 at 3:19 PM, Garison DeCrick said:

You know what’s in realistic cities? Realistic humans, with realistic noses!

Never change, Garison. ?

On 2/4/2021 at 3:19 PM, Garison DeCrick said:

Or how Ken Hisuag did the “Haha” reaction to it, I’m guessing now just to add more chaotic madness to the guessing process lol.

I just thought your post was funny . . . uh I mean HAHAH! YOU HAD FALLEN FOR MY TRAP!

On 2/5/2021 at 1:00 AM, Drunken_Flower said:

so it gonna be a while....

That's fine, I appreciate you checking.

On 2/9/2021 at 10:05 AM, buskerdog said:

Remix Tournament in 2021: "Hello and thank you for attending my TED talk.

Now why ya gotta call us out like that? ? Honestly, I think it's just us getting more comfortable with the tournament event, and thus being willing to express more detailed explanations of our subjective experiences. This is ideal for me, since it can often change my perspective of a piece entirely, and sometimes even music as a whole.

Alrighty, that should do it. I'll see y'all around, and in the meantime I'll be enjoying the renaissance of Dana's music thread!

TTT

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