CountVonNumenor Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 This us quite a natural thing. After all.you may feel bored of one series after a point, so you want to do something different and refreshing. In term of artists drawing fanart of various franchises, I noticed two things after a brief walk through Danbooru: 1) a lot of artists that nowadays draw stuff like Genshin, Fate Grand Order, Azur Lane, KanColle or Idolmaster used to draw Touhou in the early days of their career; 2) connected to #1, there seems to have been a big migration towards those mainstream series and flavor of the week/month gacha game; given some of the authors doing that very high quality (at least in terms of drawing techniques, not the topics depicted - maybe I should call it more professional-looking art if that's the term I'm looking for) art, I wonder what contribution would they have been to the Touhou fanart community Spoiler On an unrelated note, i observed the fact that a lot of artists drawing R18 type of content have moved from Touhou towards the series I have listed in the first point. So less spicy, professional looking art of that kindd going towards Touhou, and just making that other series look more filled with smut percentage-wise (Touhou has more overall art and spicy art than any of these series in terms of numbers, but they represent less in terms of percentage - just 8% compared to the 20+% where all the others start from. Anyway, is the migration a positive thing, or maybe you would have liked people to keep a tie, no matter how loose, with where they started from/come back to origin every now and then? 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsedge561 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Its positive for them, as It is always a good thing to be able to change and enjoy other things, but on the other it does make touhou look a bit more barren. i dont see the series fans dying off anytime soon (considering the fangames have gotten less frequent yet higher quality in recent years), but I can see that there has been a noticeable decline in the amount of fan manga and doujin being produced/translated than there was in the early days. it makes me a little bit sad as i quite enjoy reading them, but as long as the artists are able to enjoy what they are doing its for the positive. I forgot about the second option, i guess i would prefer to keep a tie, especially since there are some newer high quality touhous to draw too (chimata, virtually anyone from 17 arc). idk i just wanna see more chimata 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountVonNumenor Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: Its positive for them, as It is always a good thing to be able to change and enjoy other things, but on the other it does make touhou look a bit more barren. Personally, I have been looking at this thing from another point of view. Think of an artist (or any sort of creator) that builds up a fanbase around them. The people gather as they like the art of the person, or they like the topic they are drawing. After a long time of familiarizing your fanbase with one thing, you are all of a sudden switching to a completely different franchise, without any warning or explanation. In some of the cases, the artist may even delete their works related to the previous franchise. Those who have been around since the artist used to draw what they used to enjoy are now confused, not really understanding why the change (bonus points if they never address again the previous franchise they used to draw from). While the new topic may gather new fans, you have the chance of also losing the ones that really appreciated your art for what it used to depict. Some of the details in here are very specific because way too many times I have met the situation, even in our fandom. Artist draws cool Touhou stuff, then suddenly switched to another series (bonus points if it's a gacha game series/any other series with easy to lewd waifus). Yo find their old Touhou art on an image platform like Danbooru or Zerochan, want to see the original upload on Pixiv/DeviantArt/Twitter/whatever other platform, but you see a "this post has been deleted". You go back to the image board, see the artist has more Touhou stuff. This time, you just want to check their Pixiv/DeviantArt/Twitter/whatever account as a whole. And to your surprise, there is no more Touhou pictures there - everything was deleted. Personally, I believe deleting your old art is a bit of a sin. Not only do you leave a false impression be not showing any great artist started from low, but you also erase a part of your artist identity and past. Just like when trying to erase parts of history just because they do not fir your agenda anymore. To me, they (this kind of artists) are basically just mercenaries nowadays, switching from one series to another together with the trend. Latest anime series, this flavor of the month game, you name it. Whenever something falls out of fashion, the artist will also switch to the next big thing. Also why call them "mercenaries"? In the past, mercenaries used to be those professional soldiers who used to fight for the one who could pay them the highest. Nowadays, I would call artists as such since they are also can get paid a lot by milking popular franchises of the week/month, as well as these series giving them basically infinite resources to lewd - let's be honest, a lot of the designs from the series listed below in the spoiler area basically have a big sign next to them saying "pervert me" - totally on purpose because of the original game design for that characters - that, and people being horny after ship girls, gender-swap historical figures and CCP Chinese gacha game (all hail Zhong Xina!). Spoiler And just to get back to my petty displeasure for gacha games. Many times I have the feeling gacha games games are only good for being gacha waifu bait and a magnet for hentai fanart and artists. Which just leaves Touhou with less professional-looking art, especially on the more spicy specialties. It feels like these games are constantly getting incredible quality art, even if that does not always go into art you may want to show your family. It is funny how, at least according to the following table, Touhou is actually surprisingly low. We may have more art as a whole, but the series surpassing us in terms of NSFW have greater percentages of their overall art not being safe. (I will never cease to use this example) (also imagine over 40% of your series' overall fanart being hentai lol ) To quote: "So, the whole point of this essay is moot. Touhou is NOT "so popular in terms of mature content". People want to lewd idols, battleships and genderbent historical figures more than the youkai". If one is looking at the table, I can confirm at least in the case of FGO, Kantai Collection/Kancolle, Genshin, Azur Lane and Arknights to be gacha games (petty distaste, there we go). For further info on the general tone of gacha games and their communities, you can check the Touhou LW thread, specifically, the news roundup from 21st September (page 9 in the thread), where I compared the summer skins of the Touhou gacha game with other games of the genre - pretty much pointing out our "beach episode" was completely mild compared to what the genre usually offers - not a bad thing tbh. Overall, I just feel the idea Touhou fanart is rather low(er) in quality than what those mercenaries are producing nowadays for other franchises and their fandoms. But I think the element of Touhou fanart that has a special spot in my hear is the great variety of people it brings together, everyone with their own style. "Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." is a rather pertinent idea for presenting our fandom, so unique in its way of being and creating their content. Spoiler Artist: barcy Artist: j.artur Artist: raikoart To be honest though, leaving aside all the (tons of) hentai people draw of these things, I would like to see this level of professionalism/art quality more often among Touhou fanart as well. Why doe these other games always give the feeling their entire fanart section of the gacha sector is drawn by pro artists, despite being, again, just fanart? No that Touhou lacks good fanart and professional-like fan artists - there are some absolutely brilliant artists out there - but I just feel they are much more rare to find at times. Edited October 9, 2022 by CountVonNumenor 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsedge561 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said: Personally, I have been looking at this thing from another point of view. Think of an artist (or any sort of creator) that builds up a fanbase around them. The people gather as they like the art of the person, or they like the topic they are drawing. After a long time of familiarizing your fanbase with one thing, you are all of a sudden switching to a completely different franchise, without any warning or explanation. In some of the cases, the artist may even delete their works related to the previous franchise. Those who have been around since the artist used to draw what they used to enjoy are now confused, not really understanding why the change (bonus points if they never address again the previous franchise they used to draw from). While the new topic may gather new fans, you have the chance of also losing the ones that really appreciated your art for what it used to depict. Some of the details in here are very specific because way too many times I have met the situation, even in our fandom. Artist draws cool Touhou stuff, then suddenly switched to another series (bonus points if it's a gacha game series/any other series with easy to lewd waifus). Yo find their old Touhou art on an image platform like Danbooru or Zerochan, want to see the original upload on Pixiv/DeviantArt/Twitter/whatever other platform, but you see a "this post has been deleted". You go back to the image board, see the artist has more Touhou stuff. This time, you just want to check their Pixiv/DeviantArt/Twitter/whatever account as a whole. And to your surprise, there is no more Touhou pictures there - everything was deleted. Personally, I believe deleting your old art is a bit of a sin. Not only do you leave a false impression be not showing any great artist started from low, but you also erase a part of your artist identity and past. Just like when trying to erase parts of history just because they do not fir your agenda anymore. I feel like this point is an almost entirely different problem. While yes, deleting old art is pretty wrong imo, and I too do not have a lot of respect for those who simply switch to waifu simulator game drawings (thanks kancolle) I think that they do not have to pay mind to what the fans want them to draw, especially if they arent doing it for money. Sometimes interest in a series can wane, and you will instead become interested in a different series. Say, for instance, you in particular. You become big on posting topics on warhammer or something, and it gets a good amount of people to like you and follow you to see your discussion boards or videos you make on the series (i admit this point is a bit of a stretch but hear me out). Suddenly, warhammer has lost some of the luster it had before, and you see this bright shiny newer series called "touhou project". all of your attention shifts suddenly to tuhu lore and tuhuposting, making touhou videos instead of the previous warhammer ones. the fans can become confused by the change, but wouldnt you still be in your right to move to a different form of enjoyment, even if it disappointed other people? I definitly agree though it can be super annoying to find someone who suddenly stops doing touhou stuff ;-; 5 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said: To me, they (this kind of artists) are basically just mercenaries nowadays, switching from one series to another together with the trend. Latest anime series, this flavor of the month game, you name it. Whenever something falls out of fashion, the artist will also switch to the next big thing. Also why call them "mercenaries"? In the past, mercenaries used to be those professional soldiers who used to fight for the one who could pay them the highest. Nowadays, I would call artists as such since they are also can get paid a lot by milking popular franchises of the week/month, as well as these series giving them basically infinite resources to lewd - let's be honest, a lot of the designs from the series listed below in the spoiler area basically have a big sign next to them saying "pervert me" - totally on purpose because of the original game design for that characters - that, and people being horny after ship girls, gender-swap historical figures and CCP Chinese gacha game (all hail Zhong Xina!). Overall, I just feel the idea Touhou fanart is rather low(er) in quality than what those mercenaries are producing nowadays for other franchises and their fandoms. But I think the element of Touhou fanart that has a special spot in my hear is the great variety of people it brings together, everyone with their own style. "Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." is a rather pertinent idea for presenting our fandom, so unique in its way of being and creating their content. On the topic of them being mercenaries, i mean yeah kind of. a lot of them either genuinely enjoy the flavour of the week anime, or rely on commisions to gain income, and fortunately people enjoy seeing high quality art of the anime they enjoy. That is part of the issue with touhou being less mainstream, is that by logic it should be getting much less than we have already gotten, but fans are just so miraculously dedicated and talented that we have already gotten a lot more high quality art than other niche fandoms. some of the problems with finding high quality art feels more like an issue on the western/english speaking side of the fandom personally, as most reddit posts dont really fall into the "high quality" style you brought up, yet every other pixiv post i come across from touhou has a TON of detail put into it, its insane. if you wanna be able to see more high quality stuff i would check out pixiv directly as thats usually where the good stuff is. Sorry if i sound kinda dumb, I'm not used to making big posts like this yet! ;-; Edited October 10, 2022 by nightsedge561 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountVonNumenor Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: I feel like this point is an almost entirely different problem. Sure, it might be something different, but I really wished to share it here as I wanted to relieve all my thoughts in one go. 17 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: I think that they do not have to pay mind to what the fans want them to draw, especially if they arent doing it for money. I actually may question a little bit the "aren't doing it for money". From what I have seen (yeah, I did have to do some "research"), various captions for their art mention either the fac they were commissions, or art produced t be sold at Comiket (especially for the more lewd content, drawings or doujins). 17 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: Sometimes interest in a series can wane, and you will instead become interested in a different series. Say, for instance, you in particular. You become big on posting topics on warhammer or something, and it gets a good amount of people to like you and follow you to see your discussion boards or videos you make on the series (i admit this point is a bit of a stretch but hear me out). Suddenly, warhammer has lost some of the luster it had before, and you see this bright shiny newer series called "touhou project". all of your attention shifts suddenly to tuhu lore and tuhuposting, making touhou videos instead of the previous warhammer ones. the fans can become confused by the change, but wouldnt you still be in your right to move to a different form of enjoyment, even if it disappointed other people? I definitly agree though it can be super annoying to find someone who suddenly stops doing touhou stuff ;-; Fair enough. However, at least on a personal note, I would either gradually start to diversify what I am doing, maybe do something like cross-overs, or make the transition as smooth as possible from one series to another. I have seen people posting to their communities about wishing to take a break from x series or y subject and do something new, which is usually well received since people at least know clearly what is going on and what are the motivations of the artist. But again, that is just how I would personally do it. 17 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: i mean yeah kind of. a lot of them either genuinely enjoy the flavour of the week anime, or rely on commisions to gain income, and fortunately people enjoy seeing high quality art of the anime they enjoy. Perhaps I am little more sarcastic or skeptic in my nature, so I may say the main driver for jumping into the bandwagon of the most recent trend would be caused simply by the income one could get from commissions. Since one series is very popular, that means there would also be a high demand for art depicting that series and people wishing to commission art of that thing (even if I have a strange fixation of pointing fingers towards those who are horny "in #general-chat" and commission lewd art, all I can say is that at the en of the day, i guess it is honest work on the side of the artist since they get paid for a service after all). But yeah, it is always nice to see high quality art of a series you enjoy. Maybe it would not have been so bad had gacha games not been, well, gacha games - predatory games that trick you into paying lots of money and draining your soul in the search for 2D waifu JPEGs in scanty clothes. It is just that you see these series everywhere, and nothing else. Just as if nothing else existend besides these titles. Are these games or series even any good? Or they are just average bait for horny fans and even hornier fan artists? 17 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: That is part of the issue with Touhou being less mainstream, is that by logic it should be getting much less than we have already gotten, but fans are just so miraculously dedicated and talented that we have already gotten a lot more high quality art than other niche fandoms. This is probably the amazing part about Touhou. I don't know what is more amazing: the series still not having become mainstream after over 20 years despite the massive fandom it has, or the fact we have such a massive and dedicated (even with all the stereotypes regarding the "average Touhou fan") community that will drawn the internet in Touhou-related content based on a niche bullet hell game coming from just as niche of a game genre. 17 hours ago, nightsedge561 said: some of the problems with finding high quality art feels more like an issue on the western/english speaking side of the fandom personally, as most reddit posts dont really fall into the "high quality" style you brought up, yet every other pixiv post i come across from touhou has a TON of detail put into it, its insane. In this instance, I really did not rely on r/touhou and "#OC-art". If there is one tool for me to look for Touhou fanart daily, that would be through Danbooru. But if you mean specifically only just fanart made in the western community, then yeah, probably Reddit is the place where I see most of the stuff I 100% am sure came from the west. However, given the nature of Pixiv, I can't really tell if an artist is from the west, or they are just another one from Japan. I would definitely love to see some of these examples you were talking about though. I would have definitely like to write a longer reply. However, I am feeling very tired after a long day in college, so I think I may soon go to sleep. Good night, and see you tomorrow. Edited October 10, 2022 by CountVonNumenor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsedge561 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 I would also love to reply with a longer response, but too am tired from college work so instead I will share some pixiv stuff from my feed https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/92127191 https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/100144153 https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/101262951 https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/101808057 https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/100784095 https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/101712970 I tried to include mostly newer ones from touhou, though there were definitely a lot more not included here. Makes me think more about how much work they are putting into each drawing O-O A lot of times pixiv can be hard to navigate for western side, as typing in the searchbar in english will yield no results. Instead, you type a word, and it will give a tag that has the closest relations to that word, and it will give all art with that tag included. Despite that pixiv gives an overwhelming amount of high quality art, especially from touhou when compared to other sites. Good night sleepy boy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) As you both said, I think it's natural for anyone to move onto another series that they enjoy. It doesn't always lead them to forgetting about touhou and it's nice to see artwork of other stuff I might like too. Though, I'll admit it's kind of upsetting to see them move away or even take a break from drawing, especially if they've done a lot for the community. Some artists were one of the reasons why I love my favourite characters so much! However, I'm still going to support most of them regardless! Edited October 14, 2022 by Isaac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountVonNumenor Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Honestly, my big problem is not as much about people leaving Touhou fanat to gacha fanart as it is Touhou giving the feeling there are less people taking up art and dedicating to our series. Even though we still do have a lot of good artists, I guess we just cannot compete against mainstream titles anymore... or can we still? I can't lie about the fact I am feeling a little butthurt. Either because our community has lost some high quality artists, or for other reasons I'd prefer not to specify in a general chat regarding...some kinds of art being given to that series when they could very well be done for Touhou. It would be nice if Touhou managed to attract new promising artists like those other series do. But I guess that's the problem when you are not a mainstream franchise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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