(NEW AND BETTER QUESTION) Is the Touhou fandom bad?

[Sir I]

Just the Dark Side of this fanbase.

(And did the fanbase got worse?)

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sir I

[Ken Hisuag]

No. A fanbase is a group entity, and not capable of unique will. It cannot be "bad" or "good," only "successful" or "unsuccessful." The success of a fanbase is typically measured jointly by its productivity and public perception. In productivity, the Touhou fandom has been exceptionally successful, turning out an unusually impressive volume of content. As for public perception, I have never cared much for judging a fandom by this standard. In every fandom, the most disreputable parts are the most well known, and the larger the fanbase, the larger its worst parts are. As such, public perception is often misleading as to the nature of the greater whole. Nonetheless, I suspect this is what you are really after.

[Eulogous]

I think the question should be narrowed down to something more specific, since it comes off as too broad (like, for example, bad in what way?). That, or phrase it in more as a "What's your experience with the Touhou Fandom?" question.

Approaching this as it's currently written, I'd say "No". That'd be the objective way to describe it, since if it was that bad, it'd probably not exist the way it does today.

However, I find the objective answer boring and likely unsatisfactory to the curious folk who lurk around (so pretty much someone like me lol). I can only offer my personal perspective, which I think leads to an actual discussion and better understanding of one another's experience. Also, I was mulling over responding in the other thread, but it looks like I took too long and it ended up locked.

I'll preface by saying that these kind of discussions are often met with a lot of pushback, since questions phrased this way tend to be used for confirmation bias, or is at least viewed that way. I'm not going to view it that way for the sake of interaction, and I often feel like genuine curiosity is labeled as "stirring things up" or a type of conversation we're not allowed to have by the very nature of fans being asked if their fandom has issues. I'm also going to try and approach this question from different angles if I can.

I. What gets considered Good and Bad in the Fanbase

A problem I have with the fandom is how some things are unanimously liked or disliked. Public opinion of Touhou 17 seems to be at an all-time low for some reason, and I have seen some rank it below Touhou 2. Is the game perfect? Of course not. I have issues with some bullet visibility, and others say the difficulty is too low for their liking. Though, it seems this opinion kind of became prevalent after a certain video talking about Touhou's "decline" made the rounds. That's how I view it at least, so if I'm objectively wrong about it, then I'm wrong.

Having differing opinions isn't really the issue, but more of the line of logic that led you to the conclusion. When it's because someone else didn't like it, therefore you don't either, I take issue with that.

II. Gatekeeping

Gatekeeping is another point of contention for me, but that word is thrown around from the different sides of the fandom, to the point where it's just used as a generic insult. I'm particularly miffed when I see people with extensive knowledge on Canon be labeled as Gatekeepers for trying to correct a misconception or try to be helpful in an exchange. When it comes to Gatekeeping how someone gets into Touhou, that's also another thing I can't stand, because we all got into the series in our own way, so their is no "correct" way to get into it, be it Fumos, Memes, the Official Games, Fangames, Piracy, Music, or just seeing a character that appeals to you.

III. What's allowed to be talked about

This is the biggest reason for me being a lurker in the first place. I often feel like I can't speak my mind in the fandom, since I'm pretty critical of a lot of things I consume in general, and it seems only things we're approved to dislike and dissect can be talked about. Anything remotely negative, or even suggestive of negativity is immediately shot down. Sometimes you can get a real discussion going, but it's rare from what I've seen.

I know this is the internet and I shouldn't be expecting an in-depth peaceful discussion everywhere I go, but there's barely any interesting analytical content to consume in the Western Fanbase outside of a handful of videos that feel like narrated glances at the Touhou Wiki. I really only started not lurking as much after I saw someone attempt to ask actually interesting questions around the fanbase a while back.

IV. Closing Thoughts

I'm a bit more comfortable posting my thoughts here than say Reddit, or the various Touhou Discord Servers out there. It doesn't feel like I have to worry about someone breathing down my neck at all times... Anyways, I'll add that this is, again, from my own perspective. A lot of my issues aren't with any perceived personality the average Touhou fan has, it's just the stifling of discussion as a whole for shallow reasons.

[White L]

Pretty much what Eulogous just said. Although I wanna add that point III is pretty much seen to a degree in every fandom, but it's obnoxious in Touhou specially. I found only some specific discord servers to be free of all of that, everywhere else is just not worth the trouble looking.

Also gatekeepers aren't seen that much in the fandom in my experience, since most of them are just looked down upon and I barely see any support towards them.

[AlexandruUnu]

I don't think the fandom can even be called "bad". It has it's unlikeable side, that's true, but it isn't correct to judge a million people fanbase because of the loud minority.

My experience with the Touhou fanbase was quite the experience. First, lets talk about the normal side of the fandom. What can I say: They make remixes, cool fanart, and tend to be actually fun people. The best part is that this portion also makes up most of the fandom.

Now, let's talk about the less pleasant side of things. For several months I was lurking through the subreddit to see if I can settle down there (I couldn't). I saw plenty of normal people, but I also saw plenty of weirdos. These are pretty much the living embodiment of the "Average redditor" meme. Some examples that I still remember are some guys (not going to name them) that randomly brought things like very inappropiate messages and unrelated politics into normal convos. It was a whole shitshow, man.

Speaking of, I sometimes feel like that place is a hivemind for a few reasons:

• Apparently I need to have the same opinion as everyone else when it comes to the games and characters. I must hate this game, and I must love this character, or else I will get screamed at.
• Something that creeped me out is that everyone treats ZUN like he is the Messiah sent by God. I get why they would do that. He did create a whole well-known (especially in Japan) franchise alone, and is a likeable guy. But still, they treat every single thing he says like it's holy scripture, and most importantly, they insist that ZUN is a flawless man that can't do anything wrong and that everything he creates is perfection, and if you say otherwise you are the enemy of the people. Worst part is that I don't even know if they are for real or are just messing around.
• Of course, we have their opinion on certain topics, like gacha games and piracy. Boy, do they have very strong opinions about this kind of subjects.

Don't even get me started on r/2hujerk. That one is a gigantic no-no for me. Honestly, I shouldn't even be complaining since it's supposed to be a circlejerk subreddit, so of course it was going to be bad, but I have seen some vile stuff around there.

I think I talked enough about the subreddit and it's, uh, "interesting" people.

Thankfully I found this tiny little corner of the massive Touhou fandom, where I can talk in peace about subjects (both Touhou related and offtopic) without having to deal with the certain kinds of people on the popular platforms. To think that people despise this place with a burning passion kinda makes you feel like an outcast, huh?

Anyways, this was my little rant. Sorry if I got some things wrong. It was around 2 AM when I wrote this and my brain was a bit messy.

Edited December 28, 2022 by AlexandruUnu