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Dream touhou fighting game


Darksymphony777

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so i was inspired by another thread talking about future touhou game mechanics and thought i make a similar thread for a dream touhou fighting game, what would be the roster, mechanics, stages and all that.

 

if i had my way and was able to make a fighting game, the two main characters would be hong meiling and yuugi hoshiguma since they would be the most likely to adapt to a fighting game being canonically not that good at danmaku (meiling) or is good but prefers fighting hand to hand (yuugi)

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I really like the fighting games, my favourite being AoCF, however I've not played them very much yet (because I'm a super distracted person lol) so I don't think about them too much. However on this topic I'd like a style of fighting game more like say, Virtua Fighter or like Dead or Alive, where there's a third dimension (stepping to the side in addition to forward back, up and down) At least I think I remember it like that. I think it'd be really interesting to combine that with the Touhou flavoured combat in the current fighting games.
 

A pretty big part of that style of game is having a variety of environmental objects and hazards, compared to most 2D fighting games in the traditional style. Stuff like map edges that fall into another layer of the map, or K.O. hazards, etc. Hype and high energy vibes! It'd be pretty rad to have a multi-location map that spans multiple recognized areas with a logical connection.

As for character-wise... I wonder about maybe a customization/variant system? It's a lil difficult to think about roster normally for me (especially since I'm still not totally familiar with every character, there's just so darn many!) but stuff like alt costumes in fangames or the alternate versions of our favourite gensokyo gals in Lost Word catches my thoughts pretty often. Not super unique and maybe people might not like it?? but I can picture a large scale incident with this kind of premise. Since my brain is getting really scattered now I'll leave this comment here.

My one true requirement is to have Shinmy in the roster

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"I'm still trying to find the whereabouts of the heart,

now I have to find the bustling marketplace too? What the heck Zun?"

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A character variation behind costumes sounds a lot of fun, like normal crino and Advent cirno would have different moveset (Advent cirno is just her wearing cloud's gear from ff7)

 

As for shinmy, how would she play. The biggest issue would be her size, maybe a partner gimmick with seija?

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I mean she's already been in two fighting games already, I don't think her size is necessarily a huge issue BUT a partner gimmick of some kind with another character would be cute!

"I'm still trying to find the whereabouts of the heart,

now I have to find the bustling marketplace too? What the heck Zun?"

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As someone fairly passionate about fighting games this thread caught my eye. In terms of a Touhou fighter that would tickle my fancy (and is a good fighting game in general), I'd like to see some of the following:

Back to the ground.

No more flying fighters like HM, ULiL and AoCF. The old system of being on the ground by default, but having a lot of aerial mobility as well creates creates a much more engaging neutral game. The flight was fun because on one hand there's no high-committal jump arcs like in many other fighting games, but at the same time being in graze state comes with it's own disadvantages on top of having to manage your resources. The newer fighters don't have bad movement, but I don't like how they took what they had going on which was amazing and watered it down to a downward jump and a long airdash.

More moves.

One other thing I don't quite like how the recent fighters are handling is the amount of moves that characters have. While the amount of command normals is fine (tasofro plz bring back 3a QAQ), the significantly reduced number of special moves and spell cards only seems to contribute to less variety. For the specials, just bringing motions back should to the trick (Why'd they get rid of those again???) and for the spell cards...

Different customization.

The trademark Touhou fighter mechanic of deck-building which even the new fighters have has never missed the mark in my opinion. Now I know I've been singing my praises for Soku this whole time, and while I do think it provides an interesting dynamic (either you cycle through your hand very fast or you let your opponent know what you're about to try, especially if you're hovering a high-cost reversal), this one could definitely have changes made without negative impact:

  • Spell Cards: Spells could, for example, be made independent of the rest of the deck. Pick like 3 at the start of the match (out of more than three total please), and roll with them. A one button super is fine, we don't need to go back to playing IaMP or anything, but I'd personally merge this with the Soku system of changing which card you're currently "holding", with the super button executing whichever one you're currently on. You can even have the more traditional meter system like in the new games, but the main point here is that being locked into one super per set offers less variety within the match itself and takes away a lot of potential conversions that you could otherwise get.
  • Other Cards: These can share a deck of sorts. You make a loadout like in Soku (probably smaller to account for the now separate spell slots), but something like this could be in place during the round itself: Instead of having your "hand" be a meter substitute, you'll draw a card and after a bit receive a preview of the next one, but you can't draw that one yet. To draw your next card, you can choose to either use or "hold" the current one for later. You can hold like 2 cards or something before you're forced to discard one that you're holding if you want to hold your next one without using it immediately. I feel this complements the new Spell Card system while still maintaining what made the original system fun and dynamic.
  • Skill Cards: In terms of Skill Cards in particular, the idea of upgrading/changing your specials mid-set is really interesting. However, and this is more of a balancing issue than anything, I always felt that having some characters rely on Skill Cards more than others is just not very good? For instance, in Soku, I don't think I've ever lost to an Aya that didn't upgrade either Graceful Dash or Wind Standing to a sufficient level. This issue has two possible solutions in my opinion: either make upgrading specials it's own thing (maybe add a separate button done in conjunction with the desired motion) and make the Skill Cards simply switch them around, or add a sort of stance switching method with the individual Skill Cards upgrading the corresponding moves. I'd like to hear if anyone has additional input on this.

 

That's most of what I can think of off the top of my head. For the roster, maybe put Flandre, Cerberus Clipper from 17.5 looks like a good special move I guess.

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Soku but with the newer fighter characters and more custom settings like weather toggle.

Soku Ultimate basically.

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On 6/2/2022 at 6:51 AM, ACE_DEUCE said:

As someone fairly passionate about fighting games this thread caught my eye. In terms of a Touhou fighter that would tickle my fancy (and is a good fighting game in general), I'd like to see some of the following:

Back to the ground.

No more flying fighters like HM, ULiL and AoCF. The old system of being on the ground by default, but having a lot of aerial mobility as well creates creates a much more engaging neutral game. The flight was fun because on one hand there's no high-committal jump arcs like in many other fighting games, but at the same time being in graze state comes with it's own disadvantages on top of having to manage your resources. The newer fighters don't have bad movement, but I don't like how they took what they had going on which was amazing and watered it down to a downward jump and a long airdash.

More moves.

One other thing I don't quite like how the recent fighters are handling is the amount of moves that characters have. While the amount of command normals is fine (tasofro plz bring back 3a QAQ), the significantly reduced number of special moves and spell cards only seems to contribute to less variety. For the specials, just bringing motions back should to the trick (Why'd they get rid of those again???) and for the spell cards...

Different customization.

The trademark Touhou fighter mechanic of deck-building which even the new fighters have has never missed the mark in my opinion. Now I know I've been singing my praises for Soku this whole time, and while I do think it provides an interesting dynamic (either you cycle through your hand very fast or you let your opponent know what you're about to try, especially if you're hovering a high-cost reversal), this one could definitely have changes made without negative impact:

  • Spell Cards: Spells could, for example, be made independent of the rest of the deck. Pick like 3 at the start of the match (out of more than three total please), and roll with them. A one button super is fine, we don't need to go back to playing IaMP or anything, but I'd personally merge this with the Soku system of changing which card you're currently "holding", with the super button executing whichever one you're currently on. You can even have the more traditional meter system like in the new games, but the main point here is that being locked into one super per set offers less variety within the match itself and takes away a lot of potential conversions that you could otherwise get.
  • Other Cards: These can share a deck of sorts. You make a loadout like in Soku (probably smaller to account for the now separate spell slots), but something like this could be in place during the round itself: Instead of having your "hand" be a meter substitute, you'll draw a card and after a bit receive a preview of the next one, but you can't draw that one yet. To draw your next card, you can choose to either use or "hold" the current one for later. You can hold like 2 cards or something before you're forced to discard one that you're holding if you want to hold your next one without using it immediately. I feel this complements the new Spell Card system while still maintaining what made the original system fun and dynamic.
  • Skill Cards: In terms of Skill Cards in particular, the idea of upgrading/changing your specials mid-set is really interesting. However, and this is more of a balancing issue than anything, I always felt that having some characters rely on Skill Cards more than others is just not very good? For instance, in Soku, I don't think I've ever lost to an Aya that didn't upgrade either Graceful Dash or Wind Standing to a sufficient level. This issue has two possible solutions in my opinion: either make upgrading specials it's own thing (maybe add a separate button done in conjunction with the desired motion) and make the Skill Cards simply switch them around, or add a sort of stance switching method with the individual Skill Cards upgrading the corresponding moves. I'd like to hear if anyone has additional input on this.

 

That's most of what I can think of off the top of my head. For the roster, maybe put Flandre, Cerberus Clipper from 17.5 looks like a good special move I guess.

i like all of these ideas. also sorry for taking so long to reply back.

 

really the only gimmick i could think of would be a counter mechanic where any character can not only counter a combo at any time but immediately start their own combo

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I wonder how do you make a counter mechanic like that both be fun and actually work. If you can really do it at any time then I feel like matches would either be spent entirely at range or entirely with people countering eachother over and over until one of them keeled over. If it's more limited, like say, you can't do it if you're put in a specific stun state, necessitating some kind of extra set up before you do anything, or it uses a limited resource or something, I can see it working. At any rate, if there was something like this, my ideal would be that it not always be available, and the opponent can't just counter or evade out of it over and over. 

I'm probably just not good at the series lmao, but an example I can think that sort of matches my gripe with that sort of thing is the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm games. Like I said I'm probably just not super great at it, but I can't count how many times me and my brother go back and forth using substitution until one of us gets lucky and gets away or we run out of "charges" for it and whoever didn't attack first just gets hit with a whole combo anyways.

I don't know, that's jut my 2 cents, I'm no expert for sure.

"I'm still trying to find the whereabouts of the heart,

now I have to find the bustling marketplace too? What the heck Zun?"

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I'm probably one of the few who prefers IaMP to any of the later games, you know, and in particular the flying ones (they're fun to watch, but that's about as far as I'm prepared to go). Oh, I still remember my reaction upon first seeing HM, as in what the hell, the girls are flying permanently now?! (*_*)

No, for me, it's undoubtedly down to the first game's simplicity. Okay, the spellcard system was a bit clunky - not letting you choose freely between all of them in game was definitely a massive oversight since games like SFZ/A3 had no problem in that department years earlier - yet I feel the system used in SWR & UNL was a little too overboard for a beat 'em up. Hmm, I guess that would call for a compromise then, which I wouldn't be averse to as long as it works well and has characters I actually like playing. (^_~)

It is funny you mentioning counters too, HoneyBumble, as it instantly made me think of how terrible they are in MIA (Maximum Impact Regulation A, the last of the KoF: MI spinoff series and the only arcade version with correspondingly absurd difficulty to match). Even on Normal, the CPU simply abuses them too much and you can find yourself locked in an infinite sabaki where you can't do anything until you screw up the frame perfect timing and get clonked. I think it's why I prefer the second game because at least the AI doesn't keystroke read all the time (you get more costumes for the cute girls as well... always a plus).

Edited by SasaMisa
Word substitution.

1665302947_LancerDoll.png.f3d1d67b8a45698f0a8a0ea85f46d0fc.png As the Dollmaker herself would agree: Lancer Doll is best doll! (#^_^#)

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Pretty much just Soku but faster and with more wacky character gimmicks, I like zoopy airdash fighting games with characters that feel like they're playing entirely different games a lot (think Arcsys, but like, 2012-2016 Arcsys specifically) so getting one of those with Touhou characters would be great to see. Also bring back spellcard customization, cowards.

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14 hours ago, Darksymphony777 said:

i like all of these ideas. also sorry for taking so long to reply back.

 

really the only gimmick i could think of would be a counter mechanic where any character can not only counter a combo at any time but immediately start their own combo

Universal guard cancels/reversals are something that I personally don't like too much, and while it's not too hard to balance it out by making it cost meter or something, I wouldn't say it's very in line with what the games are going for (Touhou fighters in general have very few true reversals and even fewer meterless ones, but are by contrast fairly low damage games).

5 hours ago, SasaMisa said:

I'm probably one of the few who prefers IaMP to any of the later games, you know, and in particular the flying ones (they're fun to watch, but that's about as far as I'm prepared to go). Oh, I still remember my reaction upon first seeing HM, as in what the hell, the girls are flying permanently now?! (*_*)

No, for me, it's undoubtedly down to the first game's simplicity. Okay, the spellcard system was a bit clunky - not letting you choose freely between all of them in game was definitely a massive oversight since games like SFZ/A3 had no problem in that department years earlier - yet I feel the system used in SWR & UNL was a little too overboard for a beat 'em up. Hmm, I guess that would call for a compromise then, which I wouldn't be averse to as long as it works well and has characters I actually like playing. (^_~)

IaMP is definitely far from a bad game. The thing that mainly sets SWR and Soku apart from it in a positive manner for me is that the more robust deck building seems very thematically aligned with Touhou. Kinda like how a boss will never use the same exact Spell Card twice, it does feel like the use of specific attacks is very deliberate and calculated. I personally wouldn't mind going back to something like IaMP that much, nor would I mind some sort of silver lining, just turn the gravity back on please ;-;

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30 minutes ago, ACE_DEUCE said:

Universal guard cancels/reversals are something that I personally don't like too much, and while it's not too hard to balance it out by making it cost meter or something, I wouldn't say it's very in line with what the games are going for (Touhou fighters in general have very few true reversals and even fewer meterless ones, but are by contrast fairly low damage games).

fair enough, touhou fighting games are just so different from other fighting games that it's hard to figure out what would work

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