How to draw?

[CountVonNumenor]

Sounds a little stupid, especially as it seems I might have a little idea on how to do it. However, the thing I am not very sure about is the manner/style for it. It is not really a problem for me with the vehicles, where it seems like I have an idea what I want to do. but when it comes to humans/characters, that's where it becomes complicated. With so much reference in the kind of "how to [...]", one can easily get confused and no longer be sure what to pick from. It is awesome to have so many alternatives, but at the same time, where do you start from? Do you reference drawn tutorials, or go directly for images of the real materials. Here are the two options I am caught in between:


1) Draw in an already established manner

Seems like an easy option. However, after a while you start feeling "wait, why did I pick this style to begin with?". For a little bit of context. Back in 2020, I decided to take drawing more seriously and actually try to improve. I had quite a lot to work on, especially since I was never before bothered how my humans will look like. 



Drawing like this at the age of 18 really makes you question yourself why you have been so uncaring until that point

As I started to look into guides for where to start for, I have become increasingly confused, as all the guides and reference material gathered where done by different people, in different manners, and nothing seemed to fit. After a few basic drawings of a human shape, I decided to actually draw something. And the result was this thing below. My first bit of fanart ever drawn, representing season 1 Tari from Meta Runner.

 

Finally something more human, as of August 2020. Even if she looks flat like a wooden plank, at least it looked human. Still not certain what style I should go for, a friend of mine who was also exercising drawing at the time gave this a look, and came with the following conclusion: "this has very strong anime/manga vibe; maybe you should go with that style". And so, from that moment on and until today, the predominant way of drawing for me has been manga. Since this came not too long before getting into Touhou, I think it boosted my journey down the rabbit hole. 

Weirdly enough, going with anime drawing and watching a lot of example on a daily basis for almost 2 years (Touhou was a giant boost, with close to 20K images seen in just over a year), I developed the following problem: I can no longer properly perceive the shapes of a real human being. Not really in the weeb way, but there were some details I forgot how they actually work. Real shapes of body parts, some mechanics, things that do not really align with the tropes and are basically close to impossible to translate in other styles an so on. Even yesterday I was talking to someone about Michelangelo and his works while laughing a bit about why his women look like "men with boobs", and I literally forgot basic concepts of anatomy - yes, boobs can be small; they contain a lot of fat, and if the woman is jacked, that fat is burnt. And I think there are more examples of "how my perception of reality has been greatly warped", but that would just make me look like I forgot what a real woman looks like. Maybe I should just use more images of real people for reference when drawing. Anyway, back to the art part. 

And speaking of Michelangelo (gonna put this in spoiler, even if it is a work of art, just for the sake of safety online - people really are censoring even paintings and statues nowadays)

Spoiler

Nowadays, I am in a point of wondering if I actually want to draw like this, or I just like it for how it looks. My answer on that is not clear, and this marks the beginning of next section.



2) Try drawing something my own way

Probably the more difficult of the options, but also the more interesting one. Someone once told me that drawing is more than just combining styles from others, as that would only end up in some sort of "Frankenstein" work. In the past months, I have been thinking more and more about creating something unique. Something of my own, to make me feel like I achieved something. However, every time I tried so, I did a drawing or two at most, then reverted to the old ways. It does not help that I am not drawing very often (way less than I'd like to), and it takes me forever to actually convince myself to start a new project. Besides, most of time I never end up too satisfied with what I do, especially due to the fact I am setting myself too high bars and unrealistic objectives. Which only has negative effects on you, especially when you end up comparing your work with that of people with greater experience instead of comparing it with your previous work (I am literally too blinded to see my own progress)

(various attempts at drawing something more different)

















Usually, I tried testing new thing first on a special character I have created back in 2020, a college girl called Catherine (Cathy). However, just like I was saying early, I am plagued by the wrong idea of never being satisfied with my own things because they are not "good enough". By now, I am not even sure if I should stick with anime more, even of it modelled (possibly) forever the way I draw and perceive artworks, or be more brave and try again something new until I can be more satisfied with it. 

And even when I draw something that I want to be different from the manga trope style, somehow it ends up getting back there. Earlier, I was talking about how confusing it can be to find a reference in the "how to draw" kind of search since everyone is different, and that maybe I should opt for photos of real people. Problem is that I am still very prude, even at the age of 20. My post about naughty fanservice seem to show otherwise, but I still paradoxically feel shame for looking at a photo of a naked woman, even if it serves just for reference on human anatomy and how to get my shapes right. Which is quite a bit of a bummer, especially if you want to just draw a little better. All I want currently is to feel proud of my work, or at the very least be satisfied it looks better than last time. 


3) Final thoughts

Past two years have been very messy. I am still trying to figure out what I am doing, and the chart I will post below shows it very well. Too often have I switched from one thing to another, and not enough drawing due to aforementioned problems did not help. This is what I have been doing for the past two years. If my drawing chart was working like the "political compass", it would have been all over the place. Not that this one is not all over the place anyway. But I think it makes sense for it being so messy in just two years, with everything being self-taught and myself being a little messy. Anyway, I really should figure out in what direct I want to move next, and finally decide what to do.





(never managed to put them all together, but it goes March 2020-April 2022)

[sodaodaoda]

The answer I usually give to this question is: draw as much as you can.
I've been drawing digitally since 2017, and since then, I've improved a lot. The biggest tip I can give to you is learn anatomy, and while drawing, look at some references of humans (I don't really recommend looking at drawn references, mainly because if you're gonna copy that artist's drawing, you'd copy their mistakes.).
I have a whole MEGA folder with art references, tutorials, and more, so I can give you that if you want.
Another good tip is to practice the fundementals on paper first, I didn't do that and now traditional art is harder for me than digital :p
Also, I'm guessing you're using a mouse (because of the lines), I advise you to buy a drawing pad, they're much better to use, but they're not mandatory for good art. But, if you want to get one, I recommend a One by Wacom S, they're cheap.

Speaking of improvement, lemme show you how my art looked like, and what I did to improve. I'll be using my Cirno day art as a reference, since I draw those drawing on a (almost) yearly basis.

2017:



This was my first ever complete Touhou drawing, and I drew this at the time when I was just getting into digital art. This was before I had any knowledge of anatomy, and I just looked at anime drawings for reference.

2019:



Here's the 2019 version, it looks much better, and it was at the time where I did look at some art tutorials and practiced anatomy a bit. (idk why the text is underlined oops)

2021:




And finally, my 2021 drawing. I've already got the hang of coloring and anatomy. It isn't perfect by any means, but it's certainly much better than before.

 

Overall, I can see that you've improved quite a lot in these 2 years, and that is an amazing thing. I'm sure that you can work your way to the top to become a really great artist, just don't give up!
(also, I love the Okuu and the Kogasa, they're so cute!!)

Edited April 23, 2022 by sodaodaoda
i accidentally posted the unfinished reply lmao

[CountVonNumenor]

Quite a few good points. However, I feel like I need to clarify a few things, mostly related to me not mentioning them from the very beginning. 

 

5 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

The answer I usually give to this question is: draw as much as you can.

I would, if only I did not always feel tired and without any will to do anything (a general problem for me). It's extremely hard to start me do something, but once I manage to start (kind of a 50-50 chance), I stick to that thing. 
 

5 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

while drawing, look at some references of humans (I don't really recommend looking at drawn references, mainly because if you're gonna copy that artist's drawing, you'd copy their mistakes.).

That is why I say it is also very confusing. I made this file long ago with reference material, but I do not know how to use it. Also, I've seen more and more the idea of "how do you know it is wrong and not just artistic liberty?" or "what does wrong mean?". For me, the real question is where does it end being artistic liberty, and where does it become mistake. Besides, I said that I have a very strong feel of shy for working with real human models. Plus, I am not so sure how much I am willing to actually study anatomy, even if it seems like a useful idea. I have not studied engineering or anything  for the tanks, and I seem to be rather satisfied with how they look like. At most, I am looking at illustrations and photos of said vehicles though for reference. 
 

5 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

I have a whole MEGA folder with art references, tutorials, and more, so I can give you that if you want.

Sounds like an interesting idea. However, I do not really know how to work with MEGA files, and last time I tried, I did not really understand what was going on. 
 

5 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

Another good tip is to practice the fundamentals on paper first, I didn't do that and now traditional art is harder for me than digital :p

Thing is, for the most of my life, I have been drawing on paper. I started traditional drawing while in kindergarten, and my drawing at the time looked like something a 5 year old would do. However, I never felt bothered or unsatisfied with what I was doing. While in school, I always had one of those small notebooks with blanc pages where you could draw whatever you wanted. And so I was filling these notebooks with drawings that still looked like kindergarten level, about which I still did not care. The real change happened in 2020. That is when I actually started drawing digitally. 

 

Quote

Also, I'm guessing you're using a mouse (because of the lines), I advise you to buy a drawing pad, they're much better to use, but they're not mandatory for good art. But, if you want to get one, I recommend a One by Wacom S, they're cheap.

I do have a drawing tablet. It is a Wacom OneSmall I bought in December 2020. Until that point, I was drawing everything on paper, scanning (though to be honest, I was just taking photos of it) the drawing, and then tracing it on computer with the mouse and straight lines tool. And for a long time, even after I got the tablet, due to the fact my lines looked like chicken scribble, I continued using the mouse, with the tablet itself doing the sketch of the drawing and perhaps some details. I have am trying to change things a bit nowadays though.

This is the first thing I have drawn with the tablet:



 

Quote

Speaking of improvement, lemme show you how my art looked like, and what I did to improve. I'll be using my Cirno day art as a reference, since I draw those drawing on a (almost) yearly basis.

Also, nice Cirno art! There really is a visible improvement. I think we might be deviating the talk a little bit from the original purpose - own style vs adopting an established style (anime/manga), but I can see some use in the conversation until now. Anyway, even now after 2 years, I still feel from time to time like I am getting back to square 1 and need to rethink my strategy. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by CountVonNumenor
Accidentally posted an unfinished reply

[Gou the frog]

Finding your art style? Don't worry about it too much. It'll come naturally. If you want to improve, I'll say master the basics first: Anatomy, Colors Theory, Shading all that good stuff. Don't just draw. For example, if you want to be good at perspective and tanks, you'll have to practice it. After you've acquired the wisdom, put it to practice with some balance. Using references could certainly help.

 

Don't get discouraged by your art. Looking back the times where you were having fun drawing but having no clue what to do and comparing it to the current work, to see how much you have improved. Better yet, comparing with others whom has more experience than you and setting a goal that "I want to become better just like them while enjoying my own process." 

 

Like this Meiling I drew at 2021, at that time I've no idea what I was doing but I most deficiently enjoyed it.

 

 

Drawing is like any other skill. It's hard but fulfilling to do. Yeah, people like to do what they enjoy. I'll compared it to cooking, say you want to make a specialty dish like Chef Gordan with your own signature. That's unlikely for one with no interest in cooking nor find enjoyment in it. If it speaks to your heart, you'll find yourself investing in it. Before one can cook, he must learn how to handle kitchenware and etc, etc.

The point is your dish might sometime come out salty, too sweet or sour. It reflects to the artist himself. Even your work comes out terrible, one might still find enjoyment in it. After all, most of us likes drawing since we found enjoyment in it.

At the end of the the day, drawing is simply a part of our lives. You don't have to keep focusing on the one thing over your journey and one last thing: have fun drawing brother. :>

[CountVonNumenor]

Normally, I am drawing just to fill my time with an activity, and not for it as a profession. Which means I am taking it rather casually, which did lead in the past to stagnance, and why for many years I have been doing basically the same (wrong) thing. I am using reference way too rarely, and when I do, I don't really go for what I could find more useful. Plus, I would like to make sure my drawing does not look like a mere imitation of someone else's art. Every time I watch Touhou art of just "generic waifu" anime art, I feel like everything looks the same, with perhaps 1-2 patterns. It all feels like being put through a printing press, everyone doing things almost the same. And instead of getting frustrated at no being able to reproduce a pattern, perhaps I could try something new - basically one of the sources of where I am thinking what and how should I do it.
 

32 minutes ago, Gou the frog said:

Better yet, comparing with others whom has more experience than you and setting a goal that "I want to become better just like them while enjoying my own process." 

I've been doing this, but it only lead to frustration and the feeling I can't reach the same level of performance. For me, simple ambition to improve turns into unhealthy obsession and a lot of jealousy of the "why doesn't mine look like that?!" kind. Plus, I am not even sure what art do I like just because I like looking at it, and what I like and would want to emulate in my own work. 

Many good artists have lots of years of experience, tests, successes and failures, but when watching their accounts and at galleries, it feels like they only had successes, as you cannot see their beginning works, to give you a feeling of "even they started from somewhere". While in other cases, their art has always looked perfect, even from the start. 

 

32 minutes ago, Gou the frog said:

Like this Meiling I drew at 2021, at that time I've no idea what I was doing but I most deficiently enjoyed it.

Your "clueless drawing" Meiling literally looks better than something I was trying to do after I started looking into guides. 
But still from the clueless period, there comes this:



(to understand how I was drawing back in the old days of pen and paper -  this is very much how I have been drawing for more than a decade)



Early work from 2020, before getting into the idea of "I should try put some more effort into drawing"



And this one at the end, my first digital drawing ever. Done somewhere in 2010 in MS Paint

Edited April 23, 2022 by CountVonNumenor

[Gou the frog]

26 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Normally, I am drawing just to fill my time with an activity, and not for it as a profession. Which means I am taking it rather casually, which did lead in the past to stagnance, and why for many years I have been doing basically the same (wrong) thing. I am using reference way too rarely, and when I do, I don't really go for what I could find more useful. 

Aye, me too mate. I've been doing this for a while now. I've also been repeating the same mistake that "I must impress someone with my work" but I moved out of that when at the end of 2021. About references, it's pretty hard to find the one you actually need.

52 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

I've been doing this, but it only lead to frustration and the feeling I can't reach the same level of performance. For me, simple ambition to improve turns into unhealthy obsession and a lot of jealousy of the "why doesn't mine look like that?!" kind. Plus, I am not even sure what art do I like just because I like looking at it, and what I like and would want to emulate in my own work.

It does happen. Many time to me now but I stop caring it and found enjoyment in my work.

 

54 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Your "clueless drawing" Meiling literally looks better than something I was trying to do after I started looking into guides. 

I'm really sorry if I ended up sounding like a jerk that asserting dominance over you mate. I truly was clueless back then. But I can proudly say that you're drawing from the same time period as mine is truly better in colors.

 

Like this Reisen that I ruined with bad coloring of mine. 

 

Your drawing are much more free and creative than mine in every way. My first digital one is right in this year.

 

Yours from 2020 is definitely better than mine in 2022.

[sodaodaoda]

5 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

11 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

The answer I usually give to this question is: draw as much as you can.

I would, if only I did not always feel tired and without any will to do anything (a general problem for me). It's extremely hard to start me do something, but once I manage to start (kind of a 50-50 chance), I stick to that thing. 

Oh man, I feel you with this :(
I usually just try to force myself to do something, it works (most of the time, at least).
 

5 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Also, I've seen more and more the idea of "how do you know it is wrong and not just artistic liberty?" or "what does wrong mean?". For me, the real question is where does it end being artistic liberty, and where does it become mistake.

By mistakes, I meant like, perspective mistakes and anatomy mistakes, and I mean that for people who actually draw those reference drawings. Of course, there are artists who do like to warp those stuff around just for an artistic effect, but if someone's gonna draw something for it to be used as a reference for drawing, then it should be correct in regards to that.
 

5 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Besides, I said that I have a very strong feel of shy for working with real human models.

Hoooooo, I feel you with this too! Lol
Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it can be a bit awkward to look at photos of human models (especially if they're naked!), but you get used to it lol
 

6 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Plus, I am not so sure how much I am willing to actually study anatomy, even if it seems like a useful idea. I have not studied engineering or anything  for the tanks, and I seem to be rather satisfied with how they look like. At most, I am looking at illustrations and photos of said vehicles though for reference.

If you want to draw humans, it's definitely recommended to study it. You should also study tanks, so that you become even better at drawing at them.

 

6 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Sounds like an interesting idea. However, I do not really know how to work with MEGA files, and last time I tried, I did not really understand what was going on.

MEGA is just like a file explorer with folders and stuffs, it's not very complicated.
Speaking of which, here's the archive if you or other artist friends are intersted in this (Warning, it can be a bit NSFW): https://mega.nz/folder/BXJkjSKI#ef2mMsm1mkj2nf3amonPEA
 

6 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

I do have a drawing tablet. It is a Wacom OneSmall I bought in December 2020. Until that point, I was drawing everything on paper, scanning (though to be honest, I was just taking photos of it) the drawing, and then tracing it on computer with the mouse and straight lines tool. And for a long time, even after I got the tablet, due to the fact my lines looked like chicken scribble, I continued using the mouse, with the tablet itself doing the sketch of the drawing and perhaps some details. I have am trying to change things a bit nowadays though.

Ooh, that's very good. Also, you can make the "chicken scribbles" look really good too! And if you want to practice having better lines, here's this very good tutorial that I watched a few years ago:

Also, that Reimu is also very cute! I honestly like the lines.
 

6 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

I think we might be deviating the talk a little bit from the original purpose - own style vs adopting an established style (anime/manga), but I can see some use in the conversation until now.

Like Gou said, don't worry about it too much. It will come naturally. Learn the basics and you can also like, mesh several styles you like together. That's at least how I did it. But just take your time, don't rush!

[CountVonNumenor]

6 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

I've also been repeating the same mistake that "I must impress someone with my work" but I moved out of that when at the end of 2021.

Still very much stuck in that mindset. Once I discovered #art channels on the various Discord servers I was/am part of, I actually started to grow jealous of how god others could draw, while looked rough (I use to joke about this that whenever I grow jealous, I am entering "Parsee mode"). Always so much nice stuff around me that does not seem so hard to do, but when I try it, things just does not work. 
 

6 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

About references, it's pretty hard to find the one you actually need.

Also true. And when you have the problem of "Buffy speak" (dialogue indicating the awareness of an element and the inability to put it into words on the spot) when trying to look up online for the specific thing I need makes it even more confusing for a non-native English speaker. Be it a specific pose or object I need. 
 

6 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

I'm really sorry if I ended up sounding like a jerk that asserting dominance over you mate.

No problem. That is like that last thing I could be thinking of at the time. Also thank you for the latter part of your reply. As for the coloring part, it did happen to me too to have something that looked very good when drawing the lines, but then got ruined at adding colors.


 

 

3 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

Of course, there are artists who do like to warp those stuff around just for an artistic effect, but if someone's gonna draw something for it to be used as a reference for drawing, then it should be correct in regards to that.

Oh yeah, this reminds me that I forgot about posting the link for the folder of reference I was talking about, and which turned into quite a confusing problem with a mess of differently drawn charts and styles, and things that are more or less correctly made https://ro.pinterest.com/andreimorar02/reference-for-drawing/
Like I have seen multiple references for drawing boobs, and all of them say something different. And those that have some explanation written next to them, usually have that explanation written in Japanese or Korean, so I can't read it. 

 

3 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it can be a bit awkward to look at photos of human models (especially if they're naked!), but you get used to it lol

People say I might be a little too innocent looking with this one. Which can be quite a problem in the long run if I keep being so prude. With all this innocence, I might be quite at risk of getting crushed by everyone around me, and end up with a woman to dominate me (not in the kinky way, but in the "she will control and abuse your life" kind of way). But anyway, art... Yeah, quite a problem when you feel too shy to analyse a real body, and your mind image has been greatly altered by over 1 year of continuous Touhou/anime art watching. 
 

3 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

If you want to draw humans, it's definitely recommended to study it. You should also study tanks, so that you become even better at drawing at them.

Definitely something I should try do, but when it comes to humans, it just goes back to the previous point. However, it works better for tanks.
 

3 hours ago, sodaodaoda said:

MEGA is just like a file explorer with folders and stuffs, it's not very complicated.
Speaking of which, here's the archive if you or other artist friends are interested in this (Warning, it can be a bit NSFW): https://mega.nz/folder/BXJkjSKI#ef2mMsm1mkj2nf3amonPEA

Wow, I gave this thing a look, and the files are huge. Seems to be quite a lot to work with. 

 

[CountVonNumenor]

test drawing 

[Gou the frog]

7 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

test drawing 

You got those highlights down, the skin tone is moisture; The hair is also nicely done.

Let's trade drawing shall we?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                     

Was originally drawn by Gou to help cosmic get some title screen idea.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Gou the frog
The text was not in place. ,<

[CountVonNumenor]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:31 AM, Gou the frog said:

You got those highlights down, the skin tone is moisture; The hair is also nicely done.

What do you mean by skin tone being moisture? There are still some terminologies I am not very used to. Also thank you. I like drawing hair that looks fluffy, or at least would to draw it as such. 

 

On 5/2/2022 at 8:31 AM, Gou the frog said:

Let's trade drawing shall we?

Wait, you drew this for Dream of Arcadia? It looks very good! I like it. Have you done anything more on that matter?

[Gou the frog]

8 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Wait, you drew this for Dream of Arcadia? It looks very good! I like it. Have you done anything more on that matter?

It is Needlemouse who had drawn for Dream of Arcadia, I draw that for cosmic in hopes of giving him a title screen idea. (I'm an amateur at Digital Art, having created only two pieces but will create more and I'll love to take part in a game jam together with you guys)

[CountVonNumenor]

I was looking to pick some useful brushes for texturing hair. I really do not know what to pick, so I made a series of rough sketches using only just one brush per each. Anything I could make use of? From what I have asked, most people have told me none of them seems useful. 

Out of a series of multiple experiments 

[buskerdog]

My vote is on 2.

[CountVonNumenor]

Time for trading drawings. I bring this Akyuu that made her way into Pixiv https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/98443520

[Gou the frog]

19 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Time for trading drawings. I bring this Akyuu that made her way into Pixiv https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/98443520

Aye, she look like a wizard, with the posture and you've used your experimented brush? Also, I love the shading of hair, her dress and the flower! Respect has risen to a degree for featuring nails. Overall, smooth. 

 

 

Aye, my turn to trade,

This is the finished version and version of a piece I drew in 14 as I was rushing for an event as this might get into my newly opened pixiv. 

[CountVonNumenor]

Hey, that actually looks very nice! I like it quite a bit. Multiple characters, action pose, and you got the gluttonous goat. Is it some sort of cross-over with Yakuza (if the character next to Yuuma is from those games - I might be dumb and confuse with something else though)? 

[Gou the frog]

14 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Hey, that actually looks very nice! I like it quite a bit. Multiple characters, action pose, and you got the gluttonous goat. Is it some sort of cross-over with Yakuza (if the character next to Yuuma is from those games - I might be dumb and confuse with something else though)? 

You got that right lad, it's from Yakuza and they're both bosses so, it would be fitting to put 'em next to each other and it is a sort of surprise that I drew for the character Goro Majima.

[Gou the frog]

Sketch for the hashihime Reimu (I might need the manga page again since I've forgotten about it)

[Gou the frog]

You know this might be the best time to upload this; Congratulation on your marriage Zun!!!

[CountVonNumenor]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:53 PM, Gou the frog said:

Aye, my turn to trade,

This is the finished version and version of a piece I drew in 14 as I was rushing for an event as this might get into my newly opened pixiv. 

ow that I have seen AspreyFM play Yakuza Kiwami for the past few weeks, seeing Goro Majima feels a little different. At least as a spectator, it was quite fun to see him randomly coming out of nowhere, each time in a more and more creative way, and challenge you to a fight, only for you to kick his butt again and again the "Majima Everywhere" quest, if I can call it as such. I wonder if he will return in the following streams (I am not familiar with the story of the game, and last time I saw him, let's just say he got out quite rough from the last story relavant fight against Kiryu). 

Aso the watermelon scene is something I like, given that MTB also made a Touhou MMD version of it.

 

As for my own things, I have nothing new bu this. Not sure how relevant it is: 

[Drunken_Flower]

CAUTION
DENSELY PACKED POST
 

you got a drawing tablet?
well yea i know someone skilled enough to use only mouse, but drawing tablet makes a huge difference.
not to be confused with graphic tablet, yeah it's better than drawing tablet but only so slightly.

ok so to the advices

 

Mindset advices:

Spoiler

1. understanding how you improved and looking back
the growth is not linear, you can not expect to improve with each drawing.
sometimes you feel good, sometimes mood goes down, sometimes you got enlightment, you learned something new, you forgot something and etc.
this a graph that visually explain what i just said

accepting this fact will often save you from depression and sometimes keep you motivated

 

2. the worst thing for you to do is to stay in your comfort zone, keep experimenting, dont bind yourself to 'style'.
have a favorite artist? try to copy them! (granted you know the basics beforehand)
yeah sometimes you'll get worse result, but then you'll know what not to do.
if you get good result, hey you improved! congrats! take notes and improve more!

i have some examples for someone that kept staying in their comfort zone for years now
their works had no improvements at all, they kept stalling at that level.
if you want to see it, i can expose him to you.

3. doing stuff your own way is a NO go
references References REFERENCES
 

having to something to take example is a must, drawing something that already exist purely from imagination is impossible.
you need to take a look and understand how it works.
that's why renaissance painter have a model standing(or sitting or any pose) in front of them.
nowadays it's just got easier since we have photos and images at hand.
sure you will develop 'visual library' a.k.a remember how it works and draw from memory, not imagination, those two things are different.
but you need something to fill those memory first.

ok to put an extreme example; you wanted to write a book, you decide to invent a new language with your own writing system and even the book formatting is from your own devising.
if you sane and reasonable you can imagine how it gonna end up.

 

On 4/23/2022 at 9:23 AM, CountVonNumenor said:

Someone once told me that drawing is more than just combining styles from others, as that would only end up in some sort of "Frankenstein" work

pshh, what are they saying?
everything new in inventions is always a combination of pre-existing thing

also personal take; doing references to stuff like movies or music or any media you like is quite fun to do
you did that with majima yeah that's something

4. seek professional help
me
um yeah i might not fit for a 'professional', that title usually for supervisor and director and such, but im quite confident my works met industry standards.
DONT YOU EVER LISTEN TO n00bs!
they dont know what they're saying.

i have proof im an industry standard

Spoiler

here's drawings that i didnt post outside discord

5. One block at a time
you seem to already did this to some extent but i'll put this here anyway.
you only have two hands! although this a false representation..*cough* You only have one brain (yes two sides but one consciousness)!
overwhelming yourself will drain your motivation, do it one at a time, especially boring stuff like learning.
for example:
you want to draw beautiful face! learn how to draw head!
the eyes looks dead! learn how to make beautiful eye!
she's bald! HAIR!
my head needs body!
my pose boring!
and so on.

 

Basics, construction and theories advices

Spoiler

1. Volume
first thing to start... a cube , understand that it has volume, not just a flat surface
im feeling a bit lazy with my explanation but this seems simple enough that you can research your own.
yes we deal with 2D projection, drawing is all about illusions, giving it 'volume' will make it look 3D
then you can move to cylinders or spheres, you good to go as long as you understand volume.
no, you dont need to know shading to suggest volume.
you need to know volume to give shading.

2. body constructions
you know that stick figures thingy
the thing that matters the most is proportions. PROPORTIONS!
it's all about proportions, make sure the length, width and relation of each bodypart is reasonable
there's some guides on how long each part is, it doesn't need to be extremely accurate, some parts have flexibility, like head size, leg length even belly button placement.

there's also topic of 'relations'
basically how a feature interact with other, like how far the eyes whould be from each other, how high the nose compared to eyes and so on.

overtime you will develop visual library and wont need guides no more, but it's good to go back once in a while to refresh.
no, you dont need to know anatomy at this point
just the placement and stuff.

3. confident lines
i see that you found BAM Animation already, ye good channel.
i dont rember what that video say and i might repeat what they say.

one line to rule them all!
scratchy line is a no go, have confidence, make a long brush stroke
bad line? deal with it! no ctrl+z, use eraser.
confident person is more appealing than cowards.
even if it's imperfect that's fine.

4. avoid symbolism, draw like a painter
y'know we've been taught how an object is shaped, we give them all outline and assign them to an object, like an emoji.
for example
                        

you dont need to draw every lines an object is formed on
you need to change your mindset from drawing to symbols to drawing shading
i think i have a video in that matter

Spoiler

 

6. keep it simple
overdetailing will just confuse the viewer and waste your time
the lesser you need to draw the better
big shapes, less small objects
detail distribution is some other topic, just keep it simple for now

i think that's all that matter for today's basics
trying not to overwhelm you with info but there's a lot to say
color? shading? you dont need them for now
basic foundation is all that matters

also optional is anatomy, but you should focus on proportions.

 

my advice for now
copy someone, your favorite artist probably
do a breakdown of their drawing
i have a video for that. i think this the best way to learn

Spoiler

uh.. dont mind ethan
him being angry is just his brand, his jokes.
and if you look at his channel everything is also clickbaity, the contents is genuine, the clickbaits is a joke
IT'S ALL JUST A MASK DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY

 

 

On 4/23/2022 at 9:23 AM, CountVonNumenor said:

Even yesterday I was talking to someone about Michelangelo and his works while laughing a bit about why his women look like "men with boobs"

hey give the man a break
looking to an undressed woman is taboo back then- even now it's still taboo!
that's what happened if you dont have references.

 

 

On 5/8/2022 at 5:03 AM, CountVonNumenor said:

I was looking to pick some useful brushes for texturing hair. I really do not know what to pick, so I made a series of rough sketches using only just one brush per each. Anything I could make use of? From what I have asked, most people have told me none of them seems useful. 

keep the hair simple, abandon individual strands, group them together
overdetailing is something you want to avoid all the time
5th probably the nicest, smooth and simple, just the highlight too much.
also my edit

[CountVonNumenor]

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

you got a drawing tablet?
well yea i know someone skilled enough to use only mouse, but drawing tablet makes a huge difference.
not to be confused with graphic tablet, yeah it's better than drawing tablet but only so slightly.

Hey, yes, I actually do have what would be a drawing tablet (or is it the latter? I still confuse them). This is my "pro artists setup"
Probably my main enemy has always been (and still is) the following: DRAWING STRAIGHT, FIRM LINES. My hands are always shaky or cannot hold the line properly 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

1. understanding how you improved and looking back

Mindset is a huge problem for me, and quite possibly the biggest of problems that keeps me back. A very toxic combination of laziness/lack of motivation, sheltering, extreme level of ambition, a self-imposed need to be competitive/try-hard even when not needed (basically me getting even more jealous than Parsee - how is that even possible?) and getting prone to discouragement when even the slightest thing is going wrong.

Until now, I used to go pretty much ever month into a mental breakdown due to my lack of progress. I see myself as my harshest critic, who thinks I am a staganant human being. At points, I really ended up sending all my frustration into writing:

Quote

It has been quite a while since my last contribution to this area of the server. Some may have thought I am gone, but no-one's ever really gone. Anyway, as the title suggests, I ma stuck in solving a problem. Until somewhere in May this year, I felt like having much more energy in drawing, However, since that, I have felt a huge lack of morale, combined with real world stress and other things that have lead to me not being able to do anything to be satisfied with ever since.  The following image presents perfectly the 10 points I have gone through, have identified as weak point, yet which I cannot get out of no matter how much I try.

Here are some conclusions I have come to after watching. I am a bit shocked of how many wrong things I am doing that are just killing my enjoyment of drawing
1) I am way too serious with myself
2) I do not know how to set myself goals, let alone reasonable goals
3) I am drawing just as a hobby, but I stress myself as if I had to submit a work that my job depends on - I am not a professional artist, just someone who likes drawing from time to time to spend some time in a more constructive way
4) I am rushing myself
5) I forget about having fun in creating something
6) I may have a fundamentally wrong way of studying, and I really need a teacher/mentor for proper guidance
7) I am not familiar with the tools I work with, structure, composition, you name it
8) The whole chapter on ”Negative associations”
9) A total lack of foresight, curiosity and simply observing how things work in order to understand how they actually work (be it anatomy, 3D objects or more)
10) Extra: the lack of a direction in what I want to achieve through drawing. I feel like a headless chicken running around and not managing to focus or pick one thing I like and try to see how it works or why I like it (also jumping from one thing to another too often, yet reverting to the same thing no matter if I want it or not I rever to "I must draw like anime. anything else I did own my own sucked")

Also from another dose of writing (also with a portion of forced positive thinking)

Quote

So, how do I put it…?

 

How it started

I do feel like under some sort of pressure, like that I need to achieve something, otherwise I will    remain anonymous however. I feel like few things still bring me any satisfaction anymore. Even things I used to love dearly have become stale and senseless and I think I am slowly getting infected by the same depression one of my friends is going through.

I was told that I should create new things instead of relying on or trying to copy stuff already done. Somehow, I would do it, and so I did want to give a new spin to something already existent (more or less, since I may seem to follow patterns instead of actually trying new things). The real problem though, as I may have already said it like a million times, is that I do not feel confident enough in my own way of doing things since 1) it is not fully clear for me what I actually want to achieve, 2) I do not have the certainty others will appreciate it and 3) I do draw already existent things because I love them (maybe a little too much honestly), and so feel like they should look the best way possible. Or at least what I conventionally understand as "good-looking"... But for now, it is time to watch the video on beauty of failure

 

Where I am right now

Most, if not all of my problems and things I have trouble with seem to have been expressed in here. I may still need to find that personal balance though the way that would actually make me happy with my work of all kinds. However, my vision on it is still clouded, and nothing is clear which made me think - "Am I actually happy with what I am doing? What do I actually want from myself? How do people actually see me?” Way too many things that could make for some wonderful questions. However, one thing concerns me. That the recent lesson may have not had enough of an impact on me, and that I will end up reverting to my old ways in a few hours, days at most, which usually happens to me, no matter how well expressed or convincing a message would be.

Now with this done, the hardest part comes: how do you actually figure out what you want to do. Given I have seen so much anime art in the past year (enough for quite a mental overload), and seeing how much all of it is so similar (it is an art style after all, duh..), I ended up thinking that if mine does not look like that, it is wrong or just not good enough, and that is the way I need to draw if I want to end up with something cute. Such was, and still is to some extent, my personal lack trust in own skills and ideas if there are any. Everyone is drawing so nicely around me, which can turn into an intimidation factor if not handled properly, or just as fuel for jealousy, which state I honestly feel to have fallen into. But sometimes, I just need to accept. Even if someone is more talented than me, that person may have spent more years doing that thing in order to become as good as they are, or just got natural born talent they have managed to discover in time and make good use of it. That actually makes me a bit happy, since at least someone else can feel achieved. Also, everyone starts from a low level. Just because the Twitter, DeviantArt or Pixiv account ma not also have available the first images of that artist, thus giving you the impression they have always been maters in what they are doing, it does not mean they did not start from somewhere. I just need to get over that attitude of looking with jealousy on someone who drops a masterpiece of a drawing, saying it was just a 5 minutes doodle while I struggle for days to finish something that is not nearly half a good. Maybe I will reach that level one day too, just with more work on my side. Since I am the only one detracting myself from doing anything.

But I can see why that is such a wrong idea, just not the solution. Trying to copy someone may only lead you to frustration, especially if done artificially, since each of us is unique in his was of executing a task. Which is an interesting, even if extremely difficult task to achieve. And indeed, I do have that crave to stand out among others, and not just be another random human being in a sea of other faceless people. Some would say I am a bit of a glory hound, which is not completely wrong. However, I do not think it is something unnatural, especially in younger years of your adulthood, when you want to stand out and try defining who you are.

Sorry for the tedious writing. There is still more to go though...

Also I noticed that the images that tend to give me the least amount of frustration/are the most relaxing to make are whenever I kitbash a tank or try to create new components for that vehicle. It is like the one place where I cannot feel I can go wrong, and I have no pressure to compete against someone else.

 

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

2. the worst thing for you to do is to stay in your comfort zone, keep experimenting, dont bind yourself to 'style'.
have a favorite artist? try to copy them! (granted you know the basics beforehand)
yeah sometimes you'll get worse result, but then you'll know what not to do.
if you get good result, hey you improved! congrats! take notes and improve more!

I feel quite stuck actually. Every time I tried something more different, I ended up coming back to anime/manga due to not believing it is as beautiful. I have developed a very questionable sense of aesthetic, in which 2D anime art is pretty much seen as peak when it comes to being cute/beautiful/gorgeous/seductive/sexy, while no longer being able to see any other art style as being as beautiful. Which is quite an extreme switch from what I used to be like just less than 2 years ago, when i was pretty much making fun of that style. If I were to copy an artist I like, at least based on my current whims I would go with copying Iganashi1 and Linmie. For me, the biggest thing I tend to criticize myself for is not being able to get myself at the level of the artists I like. I also don't really know whether I actually want to copy elements from an artist, or just like their work for its aesthetic. My huge collection of Touhou art is in pretty much any style conceivable, so there is a lot I could pick from.

Iganashi1 (better known for his Eiki art, but still drawing other characters too)

Linmie (some of you might be familiar with her work, especially since I brought her up in the "Art Fixing" discussion thread)

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

3. doing stuff your own way is a NO go
references References REFERENCES

Despite realizing the importance of reference, I pretty much do not know how to use it. Especially since sometimes I use that reference so much I pretty much end up just copying that thing 1:1.Which is probably not as bad once you use something from public domain or a model of your own, but quite problematic when copying too much from someone else's work - isn't that when you get accused of "tracing"? Or just do not know how to translate it into drawing (like trying to draw and color hair based on a real-life photo of a haircut) But that sure is useful.

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

also personal take; doing references to stuff like movies or music or any media you like is quite fun to do

I actually did that once. I ended up with a drawing of Tenkyuu based on a frame from MTB's Chimata dance video.

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

4. seek professional help
me
um yeah i might not fit for a 'professional', that title usually for supervisor and director and such, but im quite confident my works met industry standards.
DONT YOU EVER LISTEN TO n00bs!
they dont know what they're saying.

What do you usually define as professional or noob? Besides the obvious professionals being those who work in the animation/comic/other professional arts industry. Until now, the people I kept most contact with were those I have met on Discord, and who I was very fond of their art. Like semi-professional (?) artists (not big names or experts, but still good enough to draw nicely and get paid commissions). 

As for the video you have linked me to, I am familiar with the content of Ethan Becker. I have seen how usually makes his videos, and was recommended a number of them. I was only told though not to treat videos and other tutorials as "miraculous how-to-do tutorials, as you may end up copying the mistakes of someone else", together with stuff like "even professionals can be wrong, being professional does not mean you are always right". But as a whole, I did try some of the ideas from Ethan at the beginning of last year, only to forget everything and revert to the bad habits of mine.

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

On 4/23/2022 at 3:23 AM, CountVonNumenor said:

Someone once told me that drawing is more than just combining styles from others, as that would only end up in some sort of "Frankenstein" work

pshh, what are they saying?
everything new in inventions is always a combination of pre-existing thing

The one who came up with this idea about the "art Frankenstein" was Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions.

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

here's drawings that i didn't post outside discord

Hey, these drawings are gorgeous! Do you guys have a Discord group and post things there? looking at what you draw, you are pretty much the kind of person I would try to get in my DMs on Discord for how well yo are drawing.

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

5. One block at a time
you seem to already did this to some extent but i'll put this here anyway.
you only have two hands! although this a false representation..*cough* You only have one brain (yes two sides but one consciousness)!
overwhelming yourself will drain your motivation, do it one at a time, especially boring stuff like learning.
for example:
you want to draw beautiful face! learn how to draw head!
the eyes looks dead! learn how to make beautiful eye!
she's bald! HAIR!
my head needs body!
my pose boring!
and so on.

I am feeling rather random with my work, trying to cover way too much in one go. It is still tempting me whether to draw the entire body or just a section of it most of the time. And I feel like lacking patience to go through every step individually. I really need to get my patience back. 

Alo I have this now. I used to make pixel scale Touhou characters, and now with a template I can do more than that, hopefully more easily 

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

hey give the man a break
looking to an undressed woman is taboo back then- even now it's still taboo!
that's what happened if you dont have references

I did not really intend to be mean about Michelangelo. It might be just me no longer being able to recognize a realistic woman's body after 2 years and and oversaturation of anime art (and in the past 6 months, exposure to more skin and...artistic nudity because Danbooru). I will sound odd, but after seeing so much art and probably inappropriate photographies (why go to PornHub, nhentai or R34 when all that content can simply be found on Pinterest without feeling the guilt of going to the inappropriate websites and gaining "reference" - ironic, because many of the people I am familiar with on Discord also draw copious amounts of NSFW art, while I am being seen as the odd one for not drawing lewd stuff), I was amazed to find out boobs naturally are not as big as in anime style art (I knew many of them are oversized, but was almost shocked how small real ones can be). 

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

Basics, construction and theories advices

This whole part is quite interesting. Many useful tips, but which I always forget and sadly never get to use. I should actually pay attention to them.

 

12 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

keep the hair simple, abandon individual strands, group them together
overdetailing is something you want to avoid all the time
5th probably the nicest, smooth and simple, just the highlight too much.
also my edit

Hey, that looks pretty neat

Edited July 1, 2022 by CountVonNumenor
Always adding new thigs

[buskerdog]

5 hours ago, Drunken_Flower said:

no, you dont need to know shading to suggest volume.
you need to know volume to give shading.

WISDOM 100

Also, not an art expert so I'm sure this is the most basic, repeated advice advice I'm about to give you since it's something I we were told during art lessons at school, but: when you draw something and do shading, imagine where the light source is in your theoretical scene. Pick one point in imaginary 3D space, and consider how light coming from that direction effects how the object your are drawing appears - and stay consistent to it once you've decided its position. Technically you can have more than one light source, but then you're adding another layer of complexity. Now, I'm a pixel artist so I suppose my context is slightly different, but it wasn't until much later that I actually started applying this principle, and I found it improved my art a lot.

Another suggestion I have to make, since you seem to lament the human body so much - have you ever tried drawing non-humanoid characters? Drawing animals would be something different, and since animals being naked is normal, you might find you can focus on taking in their anatomy much more. Who knows, you may even reach a better understanding of how to draw people from drawing animals.

[CountVonNumenor]

9 minutes ago, buskerdog said:

Another suggestion I have to make, since you seem to lament the human body so much - have you ever tried drawing non-humanoid characters? Drawing animals would be something different, and since animals being naked is normal, you might find you can focus on taking in their anatomy much more. Who knows, you may even reach a better understanding of how to draw people from drawing animals.

I used to draw animals for a very long time. At least draw dinosaurs, even if they pretty much looked like something a little kindergartener would have done. Now I feel like I completely lost interest in them, or in drawing animals in general. My problem is that I simply see no reason to do that anymore. But it seems like an interesting option for the study of shapes and anatomy. As for my lament with the human body, it comes mostly from me having a very warped vision of what a real body is anymore, as well as not being sure where to take liberties. I do not want to be a master of photo-realisitc bodies. I just want them to look pretty.